AIBU regarding DH's lack of boundaries with DD

[Livid66]

I have name changed because I'm so ashamed that this is my DH I'm talking about. My DC is 12 years old and she shares a room with our 10 year old DD. As you would expect, DD1 is becoming more self conscious over the changes in her body and I have now started to knock on their bedroom door before entering, especially at night or in the mornings when they're likely to be changing. DD mentioned to me two days ago that she feels uncomfortable because DH just barges in without knocking. So, around the dinner table that day, DD asked her father to knock first in future. He half- heartedly agreed to do it.
This evening, DD1 came into my room upset because DH had once again barged in and she was changing into her bedclothes at the time. When DH joined us, he explained that he had gone in to say goodnight to the girls as he will be starting a job tomorrow in another city and won't see her until Friday. He said he expected her to have changed clothes by then. When she reiterated her discomfort he was completely dismissive of her feelings, stating that it wasn't as if she was naked. She became more upset because she had expected an apology but instead had her feelings completely dismissed. Although I tried, he would not accept that she needs privacy but also that he was insensitive to her feelings. He went as far to say that he has no interest in empathising with children's feelings as it is not important. He feels that she should accept his right to go in without knocking. It disturbs me that I am married to an otherwise very intelligent man with who is also so fucking ignorant. How can I convince him that he's hurting our DD? I have no suspicions of any sexual intent btw. His attitude is similar in other contexts concerning our DC.

He is teaching her, as others have said, that her consent isn't important. He doesn't give a shit that he is teaching her that a determined, bullying man gets to tell her what her boundaries should be. That is extremely dangerous and if he doesn't understand that, he's a dreadful person and a worse father.

THIS^^

try to remember when getting angry not to make it bout some seedy behaviour towards the girls as I get from some replys on here.
yes its come down to being about the girls and there privacy in that area but on his part its just dad says dad does all he wants right?so his house he can go and do as he pleases.this is what to get angry over.
sit him down and say listen you can have ur 1950s rules of you ruling the roost and I can think you a tit for it.but I will not let my girls feel uncomfortable at such a vunerable age over their bodies not my any male and definitely not by there father because "darling" that isn't you.dont make them hate you for this.dont make ur rules of being king make the become haters or feeling a male has gone passed the line with them and their bodies.

Your poor dd.

You have to consider the real possibility of outsider involvement in this. All it takes is your dd to tell a friend. That friend tells their parents or a teacher etc.

How can you so certain Kate? Do you have special insight into this mans mind?

This is just such bizarre behaviour I'm having trouble understanding where he''s coming from. IIRCC, my dad would knock at my or my sister's room way before 12. Probably from the time we stopped being 'little little', say 7 years old onwards.

I feel really sorry for your DD that tried to politely and maturely express a need that was completely ignored by the male she is supposed to feel most comfortable with in her life so far.

I actually felt really panicky reading your thread because the feelings of anxiety, hyper vigilance and repressed anger came back- my own childhood home had no locks on any doors and my Father would walk in without knocking. When changing or bathing I was always listening out for approaching footsteps, wondering when to shout out that I was in here, it was exhausting to a teenager craving privacy, and if he did walk in I felt violated, disgusted with myself, repressed anger towards him. I don't think he was intentionally trying to make me feel that way, but his insistence that my desire for privacy ranked low enough to be ignored did that.

As a teenager and young adult I had terrible boundaries with men, and got into some bad situations.

Please take action. A short term measure,,such as a door stop or lock, today. Then a long term measure to either change your husband's behaviour, or reduce it's effect on your daughters.

Is he her Dad or her stepdad?

You her my daughter and her younger sister our daughter.

He's an even worse creepy bastard if he's not even her bio dad.

Give her a lock for her door so she feels safe until you decide to make both girls properly safe by making him leave.

Not ok. My dad started knocking on my door by the time I was about 9/10 and I'm very grateful for it

DM was a different matter!

My father was like this when I was that age. My mother wibbled and enabled, and lo and behold...as I got older, he continued to try to assert his power as Master of the House (he did actually use that phrase) who was never wrong and should always be obeyed without question.

Within a year of this age, OP, he was barging into my room to slap, kick and punch me because I had not deferred to his mastery. He would stroke my neck and breathe down my ear and get angry when I jumped away and screamed at him to stop. He threw a massive strop on holiday when I was 14 because I refused to let him photograph me in my swimming costume. The thing is, I don't really believe any of this was actually sexual, but it was definitely about his belief that no female he "owned" should have any bodily autonomy or any inherent right to privacy beyond what Master permits.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you that it fucked me up royally. Nip this shit in the bud now.

God OP that sounds horrible. I agree that it's probably most effective to play on his fear of appearing as though he's a pervert to curb this habit.

Your poor daughter now needs a lock even if he were to stop barging in, she'll never feel comfortable undressed in her own room now.

DH knocks on our DD's door, as do I, and also on 15 year old DS but not 11 year old DS2.

Once I dint knock for DD and she was not happy. I won't make that mistake again but it distressed her and why would a parent ever want to cause upset to their child?...

Your DH is a dick.

Encourage everyone who comes to your house to barge in on him on the loo then see how he likes it!!!!

OP, I would ask your H if he looks at child porn on the net. When he says no, and looks shocked, inform him that it's no different to seeing his 12 year old daughter naked. Even at 10, I'd have hated it - DD2's on the verge of puberty too.

And this is awful:
"He went as far to say that he has no interest in empathising with children's feelings as it is not important. He feels that she should accept his right to go in without knocking." What about DDs' right to keep their bodies private?

Ask him "Why do you want to see DD in her underwear or naked?"

He'll say, "I don't". You'll say, "but that's what will happen if you go in without knocking. So why do you want that to happen?

Giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that his motives here are not sexual, he is a fucking moron.

I work with children who have experienced sexual abuse. Child Sexual Exploitation is a huge (and growing) problem in this country. It is absolutely rife and most people do not realise the scale of the problem. To teach a 12 year old girl that she is not entitled to make decisions about who sees her in a state of undress is so fucking stupid and dangerous it beggars belief. Worse still, when she (appropriately and assertively) voices her discomfort she is belittled for doing so and has her feelings completely dismissed. Do you realise how invalidating that must have been for her? Does your DH understand the deeply dangerous message that he has sent your daughter? Basically, there's no point speaking up if you feel uncomfortable or unsafe because no one gives a shit and speaking up changes nothing.

Your DH may believe that children do not have the same rights as adults but he is, both morally and factually incorrect. Previous posters are right that if your DD happened to mention her predicament to a teacher or another adult this may well be raised as a safeguarding concern. Your DH needs to accept that his behaviour is inappropriate and, whether there is sexual intent behind his actions or not, a man who repeatedly enters the bedroom of his adolescent daughter while she is changing despite having explicitly been asked not to will be viewed with a great deal of suspicion by any professionals who work with children. And rightly so.

Getting a lock on the door may be a good short term, practical solution. Unfortunately it will not change your DH's beliefs or attitudes. He will simply invalidate and disrespect your DD's feelings in other ways. Neither will it repair the damage done to your DD's relationship to her Father, her own body or the way she views men in general. It is a sticking plaster but that's all.

One of two things is happening here. Either your DH realises how deeply uncomfortable he is making your daughter and he derives some kind of satisfaction (sexual or otherwise) from that or he is so lacking in empathy and emotional intelligence that he is unaware of the impact his behaviour is having on her. I'm afraid neither is something that I could live with or allow my daughter's to be exposed to.

I've been knocking on my son's door since he was about 10 or 11.

samvak.tripod.com/narcissistfamily.html

Sam Vaknin's site is hard to plough through and suffers from an apparent lack of organisation. However it is well cross referenced, if a little repetitive.

This section on narcissist fathers needs to be read.

OP, watch out for outrageous punishment being visited upon the DD who called him on this and stood up for herself, with a contrasting attitude towards any other DCs you have, an effort to create a golden child/black sheep family model.

Op: ask him if he wants his pubescent daughter to grow up believing she has a right to privacy over her body, and confidence in protecting that right, or does he want her to feel that she must capitulate to what men want?

I think this calls for a family meeting.

Either he stops barging in on your children or you all move out where he has to knock at the front door and wait to see them, once every fortnight and one evening in the week. And even then will only be seeing them if they have locks on their bedroom door/s as they cannot trust their own father to give them appropriate boundaries.

Ask him whether he is prepared to walk in on her naked (which will happen if he keeps doing this) and for her to be upset, embarrassed, resentful and afraid of him. This is the inevitable outcome of his line of thinking.

If the answer is yes, I can see no option but to throw him out, I'm sorry to say. I can accept the idea that he thinks 12 is young in many ways to make some decisions, I can accept his view that he has the right to enter her room without permission (ultimately) but not to refuse to knock when he knows there is a chance she is undressing and she has repeatedly expressed her discomfort. Just no.

I wouldn't put a lock on the door(fire hazard if daughter forgets to unlock). Def do door wedge the so door can't be fully opened.

1. Your husband is a dick.
2. I had younger brothers with no boundaries so I just changed in the bathroom. A workaround! (Not that your daughter should have to find a workaround to an adult not understanding the importance of consideration)

My father was like this. When I reached my teens the situation became very tense. He had no qualms about barging in on "his" daughter in a state of undress in "his house" (locked bedrooms not allowed). And he refused to stop walking around naked no matter how uncomfortable it made me because it was "his right in his house."

The upshot was my parents ended up divorced and I didn't see him for 11 happy years.

Tell your husband to keep it up if he wants to end up old, alone and lonely.

some excellent points have been made.

I think I'd write him a letter. if he's not the sort to listen it's hard to make a structured case when you're being battled down. outline how teaching your girls boundaries and privacy and autonomy over their bodies is part of your job as parents so they can handle pushy or bullish boys when the boyfriend years come. that if a teacher overheard her telling a friend that 'dad comes in her room when she changing' then they'd have to contact social services about it etc if he has a chance to read it alone and digest what you're saying without confrontation he may change his ways without too much hassle.

I'm not sure I'd let a 12 year old have a lock on her door, I'd worry they'd lock it at night and what if there was a fire etc... but I'd have locks on the bathroom and maybe just say to her that you are dealing with dad but if she's more comfortable then she should change in the bathroom with the door locked.

if he still refused to accept that your dd deserves privacy then I guess I'd get a proper lock with key fitted, so I knew that in an emergency I could always get in, and explain to her that it is only for changing and must never be left locked at night. or leave him.

I think it was pretty brave of your daughter to speak out as she did, and I would imagine she is feeling let down by both her parents at the moment - a father who deliberately walks in on her in a state of undress and insists on imposing his 'right' to do this, and a mother who enables it.

If nothing changes, don't be surprised if she seeks outside help - as others have said, schools are obliged to use their safeguarding procedure if a child discloses information about possible abuse.

Most adults who made their children uncomfortable would apologise and try to make sure it doesn't happen again. Your husband needs to understand that his insistence on his right to observe his teenage daughters undressing indicates that he is either a sexual criminal, or a man who bullies his children. Neither is acceptable.