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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU regarding DH's lack of boundaries with DD

405 replies

Livid66 · 23/08/2016 23:11

I have name changed because I'm so ashamed that this is my DH I'm talking about. My DC is 12 years old and she shares a room with our 10 year old DD. As you would expect, DD1 is becoming more self conscious over the changes in her body and I have now started to knock on their bedroom door before entering, especially at night or in the mornings when they're likely to be changing. DD mentioned to me two days ago that she feels uncomfortable because DH just barges in without knocking. So, around the dinner table that day, DD asked her father to knock first in future. He half- heartedly agreed to do it.
This evening, DD1 came into my room upset because DH had once again barged in and she was changing into her bedclothes at the time. When DH joined us, he explained that he had gone in to say goodnight to the girls as he will be starting a job tomorrow in another city and won't see her until Friday. He said he expected her to have changed clothes by then. When she reiterated her discomfort he was completely dismissive of her feelings, stating that it wasn't as if she was naked. She became more upset because she had expected an apology but instead had her feelings completely dismissed. Although I tried, he would not accept that she needs privacy but also that he was insensitive to her feelings. He went as far to say that he has no interest in empathising with children's feelings as it is not important. He feels that she should accept his right to go in without knocking. It disturbs me that I am married to an otherwise very intelligent man with who is also so fucking ignorant. How can I convince him that he's hurting our DD? I have no suspicions of any sexual intent btw. His attitude is similar in other contexts concerning our DC.

OP posts:
pasic · 24/08/2016 22:56

I'm trying to get a handle on how your marriage works OP, does he listen to you, does he care what you think?

I find his attitude quite extraordinary, I just don't get it.

EttaJ · 24/08/2016 23:01

crumbs really?! How about you read the entire thread rather than making a stupid comment like that.

Xenadog · 24/08/2016 23:03

If any man treated me or my DC with that attitude he'd not have his family around him for very long.

He is no one's Lord and master, he has no rights to anyone's body other than his own and his lack of respect for your DD's feelings aren't a red flag they're fucking bunting.

If he can't (or more likely won't) change his attitude and continues to insist on walking into his DD's room when he feels like it then I would have no issue with ending the marriage. On the surface this is just an old fashioned attitude but once I started to think about things I realised just how wrong this is. OP, you say there's no sexual intent with his behaviour but I don't know how you can know this for definite. Even if there isn't, the emotional damage he is doing to your DD is awful. It is abuse. I couldn't allow my DD to endure this.

OP, do you fear his reaction for when you bring this up?

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 24/08/2016 23:06

Get your daughter to have a conversation with him to explain how it makes her feel.

Er, did you read not the OP? That's exactly what happened last night, and he completely dismissed his DD's feelings.

Italiangreyhound · 24/08/2016 23:08

Crumbs, re "Get your daughter to have a conversation with him to explain how it makes her feel." She did that, he doesn't care.

Re "It's not exactly a big deal." I think it is but more importantly the daughter thinks it is.

Re "I think fitting locks in family homes is outrageous and actively works against what a family should be - open, kind and forgiving."

I think it is a shame but may be a necessity. Yes, a family should be those things but also firstly, loving, caring and respectful - not respecting boundaries is not respectful or caring or loving. Does barging in on a young girl changing sound kind?

Yorkieheaven · 24/08/2016 23:16

crums er wow what s strange post.

Our old house has locks fitted anyway with keys to all the bedrooms. Don't think of one occasion when my dcs felt the need to use them and we are very private people who don't do naked. We just knick and wait. That's basic good manners which we started mutually dling with our kids from around 4 years old.

I think your dh sounds horrible ignoring your dds wishes like this and if I read it right he's her step dad right? Very unsavoury

MiscellaneousAssortment · 24/08/2016 23:40

"Miscellaneous, I really don't think he has any intent on seeing her naked. I'm not being niave, either."

I can understand that. But as the result of his behaviour will be to see her naked, if sort of doesn't matter what his motives are, he's still forcing her to be naked in front of him whenever he chooses... Which is what abusers do.

He cannot divorce his behaviour from an abusers behaviour when it's the same behaviour. So whether his motives are about power through control or power through sexual control, he's in a territory no good patent would ever, ever want to be in. And the fact that he thinks he's special so should be allowed to deny his daughter personal boundaries, well, it speaks volumes. Whatever he thinks it's saying...

So, if he isn't an abuser, he needs to stop acting like one. If he doesn't want people to think he's an abuser, he needs to stop acting like one.

To contextualise, my parent/s imposed their power on me and smashed down my boundaries, privacy and body autonomy. But they'd be suitably horrified and deny any such thing ever happened. That's because I wasn't allowed any ownership over myself, so it didn't matter what they did to take my privacy, dignity and boundaries... Therefore no harm was done.

Believe me, a huge amount of damage was done.

It was hell and I was driven to extreme lengths to try and maintain some kind of body integrity and control. I did write why but decided is too personal, but it was extreme though I blamed myself for years. It's only now decades after that I realise my desperate secret ways to have ownership over my own body showed how terrified and distressed I was, not what a freak I was/am.

And of course I was a sitting duck for any abusive relationship. Like having a target on my back, and a tshirt saying 'I have no boundaries and I don't know I can say no'.

I've got better at enforcing my privacy and not being guilted, scared and manipulated into falling in line. It helped when I finally realised I could walk away from their house. Get out of there.

The one still alive continues the game in the very infrequent contact I'm guilted into. Still pretends they don't understand basic privacy and respect for others. Gets 'confused' about how the basic etiquette of how 'knock, answer, come in' works. So, so confusing right?

Their confusion started when their cardboard cut out dd started to act like a real person. After the rage and bullying stopped working, and then the shaming didn't have the desired effect. It's onto the poor ickle me I'm so confused and rejected crap.

They pretend that it's all just a misunderstanding and they're trying their best (to ensure they do what they've always done). Knock becomes a slide in very very quietly, then stand there staring in disgust and/ or commenting. Or staring into the toilet bowl (!), after barging into the bathroom, or listening outside the door (having tried the handle and given it a good shove to see if the lock will break). And then it's all pretend shock and upset 'I know you don't like being disturbed so I came in quietly... (To stare and judge and comment'). When they were clearly and repeatedly asked to knock if the door is shut. Wounded horror and then repeat ad nauseum. Knock you sick fuck, just fucking knock.

Just another way of exterting power over me. Still. It's disgusting. But hey, it's only a door right?!

Me and so many other posters are sharing the effects of being brought up in families that refused to acknowledge fundamental needs. Maybe your dds father can stop this happening to his children. If he can see the damage he has the power to do.

RubbishMantra · 24/08/2016 23:48

crumbs, OP's daughter has already had a calm and reasonable conversation with her father, requesting he does not barge in when she's semi naked. And it didn't work - he's just ignoring her right to privacy, because it's "his house, his rules".

And his most recent crap excuse - he was going away on a work trip. How on earth would that prevented him from knocking?

Oh, *RestingFace, I wasn't allowed to wear knickers in bed either. Until Uncle Nonce came to stay from the country he'd emigrated to. I was told not to "flash about" in front of him Confused.

He abused my elder DSis when she was 4, by bribing her with sweets.

CodyKing · 25/08/2016 00:24

he has failed to adjust his parenting approach to their developing needs.

She is in a very quick path to changes now - privacy girl friends boy friends trying alcohol sex make up fashion you name it - he'd better get a live in adjusting his parental skills !!

He's over reacting way too much

Your poor DS as well!!

You do know they won't be brings their friends round - you for girly chats or sleep overs because their friends will comment on it?

You won't see much of them unless he stops - more freedom at friends houses will see them leap at every chance - and no control at others houses either

It's your choice

mathanxiety · 25/08/2016 05:44

There is no way this child should be asked to face her father in any conversation about this again.

The ball is now squarely in the OP's court.

It disturbs me that I am married to an otherwise very intelligent man with who is also so fucking ignorant. How can I convince him that he's hurting our DD? I have no suspicions of any sexual intent btw. His attitude is similar in other contexts concerning our DC.
The fact that you need to convince him should indicate to you that he is a lost cause. Stop trying to convince him. He enjoys seeing you work. He enjoys knowing that all he has to do is fold his arms and say 'I will do as I please'.
Don't stick your head in the sand when it comes to any possible sexual element. Your DD may experience this as a sexual violation, and you have no idea why this 'intelligent' man is so 'ignorant'. Look at a few more adjectives that you could ascribe to him and to his behaviour.
I am not saying the prime purpose of his behaviour is to groom her or to assault her. What I am saying is what NotYoda pointed out above - he will stoop as low as he thinks it is necessary to stoop to win this battle and assert his dominance.

It's his patriarchal attitude that seriously pisses me off but its impenetrable.
I am assuming this is part of a pattern then. Can you give any more examples of his attitude?

I am very conscious of the model he presents to the DC.l in this regard. He also has many positives but I struggle to live with this part of him.
This part of him is really important and cannot be separated out from the positives you see.
It is easy to get trapped in feeling you have to put forth effort today to make it work or all your efforts up to now will have been wasted.
What positives are there in this for your DCs?

Glastokitty · 25/08/2016 06:42

I'm sorry, I know he is your husband but he sounds like an utter creep to me, and if he is as intelligent as you say then he knows exactly what h is doing. Please protect your children from him.

ocelot41 · 25/08/2016 07:03

Good morning OP how did you sleep?

BTW, I wasn't sure whether an earlier poster might have a point when they said that a man might find it harder to understand a young girl's need for boundaries. So I ran past DH the basic problem: your DH walking in on 12 year old DD and refusing to knock.

He looked like this Confused but with added Shock and Hmm. His comment was 'WTAF? That's so off '. So I guess it is obvious to some blokes. Sorry.

lasttimeround · 25/08/2016 07:05

Please do look up narcissistic personality disorder and have a serious think about things. My f was like this - the need to control, hhe need to be right, the lack of empathy/understanding of others and the blindness on the need for that.

He bullied us because we were his, we existed to serve his ego. My mother made excuses - other cultural values, old fashioned, look at how intelligent/great provider blah blah. Often I find her more culpable than him. I think he's ill - massively successful, intelligent, charismatic etc but ill inside in a way he will never fix. She however let it happen - again and again she made choices to let it happen. My sisters and I were children we should not have been left at the whims of this sick person. I wish my mother had had mumsnet (to tell her she was not bring unreasonable that these weren't run of the mill compromises it wasn't normal behaviour) Y)- you have mumsnet.

ShebaShimmyShake · 25/08/2016 07:50

If he thinks his kids are extensions of himself, the next few years are going to be fun. Don't be surprised if the sicko gets violent.

He's not emotionally evolved if he thinks this is OK. He's either faking it in other circumstances, or he thinks decency doesn't apply to him because his kids are his property. Either way he's a creep and a sick fuck and if he doesn't start seeing his kids as individuals soon, there'll be abuse. I'd argue that there already is.

ShebaShimmyShake · 25/08/2016 07:51

Oh and Crumbs, have my first ODFOD.

ocelot41 · 25/08/2016 07:54

Do you think that he might be open to attending some form of therapy OP? As others have said here, he really needs to change his attitude towards the personhood of his children, if you guys are going to come out of the teenage years as a strong, happy family unit. What you describe sounds deeply-rooted so he might need professional help sorting it out - if indeed he is willing to sort it out.

a8mint · 25/08/2016 07:59

I do think you should have told him in private rather than bringing it up round d the dinner table which probably felt a bit humiliating

VeryBitchyRestingFace · 25/08/2016 08:03

I do think you should have told him in private rather than bringing it up round d the dinner table which probably felt a bit humiliating

It was the child who raised it at the dinner table, not the OP.

She was probably thinking, "safety in numbers."

AnyFucker · 25/08/2016 08:03

More "humiliating" than deliberately invading the privacy of your adolescent daughter ?

We have another man pleaser I see

I would have no qualms about shaming this guy. In fact, I might even bring it up in front of wider family and friends. Let him explain his thinking in the face of their judgement because he certainly doesn't give a shit about that of his immediate family

ocelot41 · 25/08/2016 08:06

I am with VeryBitchy on this. Tough shit if its humiliating - he needs to see that his behaviour is affecting the whole family. What he is doing is humiliating the DC!

overthehillandroundthemountain · 25/08/2016 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShebaShimmyShake · 25/08/2016 10:30

If he really thinks he's right, why would he find it humiliating?

Of course, he's happy to humiliate his kids, so fuck him anyway.

JudyCoolibar · 25/08/2016 10:32

I can't see how any mature man would find it humiliating to have this brought up around the dinner table, unless of course he felt ashamed for not working it out for himself - but that clearly isn't OP's husband's position. I think if it had been my DH he would have agreed immediately and apologised for not having realised it already.

paxillin · 25/08/2016 10:33

Well, if he's so sure he's right, surely he won't object to dd1 bringing it up at Christmas when the whole family is there. Surely he'd expect to get a round of applause from the assembled aunties and grannies?

KiteCutter · 25/08/2016 10:40

I've read most of the thread and I'm sorry, I wouldn't be with him.

DD is 11 and DH's biological daughter and he wouldn't dream of not knocking on her door or the bathroom door (to avert his eyes and hand her a towel if necessary if she called out) and would wait for her permission.

I also knock on her door although she is obviously less bothered with me. Her 8 year old brother also knows the same rules.

What concerns me most and I think a few people didn't pick up on; is this is not his biological daughter - it's his stepdaughter and I'm afraid I wouldn't rule out anything sexual even if it's just "looking" or getting off on the control.

I can assure you I'm not someone who sees dubious intent everywhere but this would raise absolutely huge alarm bells for me.

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