To think Corbyn has been exposed as a liar

[JonathanDunn]

He lied about the train. Aibu to think this is a show of character

in a democracy we have to give time to an elected leader of the party to present his policies and their legitimacy. That's the first step. Then the electorate can accept or reject him/her. I had no idea what his policies were and every Charles Dick and Harry from the Labour Party PLP itself was very very loud in denouncing Corbyn instead of giving a proper account of his policies. This is my main criticism here. I want the right to hear him out and decide for myself.

In a democracy where members of the party are responsible for electing their leader, one would hope that the policies and legitimacy had been proven before they were elected.

How on earth didn't you know what his policies were?

He was elected leader of a party which had a manifesto, which had a party conference and who ran in a contested leadership contest.

If his policies, legitimacy and leadership credentials were not clear during the contest, then what qualities were members of the party voting for ?

And, as for the PLP denouncing him and robbing you of the chance to make up your own mind; who elected them?

Snapespeare all those excuses are possibly reasonable as a back bench MP.

As official is leader of the opposition he needs to be more organised, punctual and efficient. He doesn't have time to get on his high horse about travelling first class. He has work to do.

merrymouse He wasnt late for the hustings, he had plenty of time to get to where he was going...and if he had travelled in first class, people would be lining up to slag him for that. I'd rather he made time for people, to listen to them than dash off to another appointment.

All this is, is an attempt by people who already dislike him to discredit him for making a very valid point - that the train 'service' in this country is shocking. It's overpriced, crowded, unpunctual.

The virgin pictures show him walking past reserved but empty seats. Any sensible train user knows when its busy to sit in one and hope the person who reserved the seat doesn't turn up. So if the photos are real (and can't see why Virgin would falsify them) Mr Corbyn is at best an inexperienced or inept user of rail beyond London!

Yes it is, but as Harriet Harman said recently, the case for reverting to public ownership needs to be made forensically. JC sitting outside the loo is what he does best - complaining about something without producing a detailed, robust policy on how to fix it.

There is enough media coverage about the appalling train services and thousands of us experience the problems first hand. We don't need JC to highlight the problem. His actions were disingenuous - the implication was that even the leader of the opposition can't get a seat. Whereas his office should have booked him a first class seat so he could work comfortably at a table and develop a credible policy for solving the problem - not just doing his usual 'this is terrible it needs to be fixed' routine.

He wasnt late for the hustings, he had plenty of time to get to where he was going..

But according to a pp he missed the train on which he had reservations because he left his previous appointment later than planned.

At best, it sounds like poor time management.

What impact would it have on the public purse if security/police had to change arrangements at the last minute because the PM decided on the spur of the moment to catch a later train?

his office should have booked him a first class seat so he could work comfortably at a table and develop a credible policy for solving the problem

Given his attitude towards being in the office, I suspect that "working.. at a table" is exactly what he tries to avoid.

I find if you are in the office, the crisis finds you. If you're not in the office, the crisis finds somebody else

Snapespeare, you said he missed his train.

Are extra trains supposed to be laid for people who miss trains?

I haven't implied that an extra train should magically appear for people who've missed their trains merrymouse & I'm not sure how you've managed to extrapolate that from anything I've said. I think they tend to get more crammed when a train is cancelled for whatever reason and you effectively have two trains worth of people on one train.

NNchangeagain. He's not PM. so it's not really a valid argument, is it.

snape You're right, he's not PM. I'm not going to comment on his electability.

However, if I've understood right, you suggesting that the public allow a probationary period for the job of PM.
Do you not think it necessary for him to demonstrate his competence for that job while in opposition?

Being leader of the official opposition party means that he could be asked to form a government unexpectedly. It's not a job you can be broken into gradually; you have to 'hit the ground running' - be confident and competent at what you do.

It's equally fascinating, depressing, and scary that this thread can rumble on, and nobody (apologies if my speed reading missed it) has raised any concerns about the dubious legality of Virgin Trains releasing CCTV footage in contravention of it's own privacy policy.

It seems at least one barrister has picked up on this :

Matthew Scott @Barristerblog
Here is an extract from Virgin's June 2016 privacy policy (it includes information from CCTV on trains).

twitter.com/Barristerblog/status/768095589070409728/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

lurking I'd love to see the Data Commission investigate and prosecute - it would take even more attention away from the legitimate government activities.
It would be an interesting, and perhaps prescedent setting case.

snapespeare, the point is that he could easily have avoided the problem of 'having to sit on the floor' by being more organised or just sitting down.

Plenty of people have managed to speak about crowded trains without scoring such an own goal. Of course his supporters believe he can do no wrong, but by choosing to sit on the floor he just comes across as spoilt and petulant to the rest of the electorate.

Hmm, talking if saving the taxpayer money, maybe Corbyn should have made his booked train on time, rather than having to buy new tickets for him, his wife and full entourage at the expense of the taxpayer. I'm not sure how many aides he had with him but a single to Newcastle on the day is £90 in standard class.

Hmm, talking if saving the taxpayer money, maybe Corbyn should have made his booked train on time, rather than having to buy new tickets

Its not as though he woke up that morning and decided he would go the leadership hustings in Newcastle is it.

If it is, then its another onion layer of ineptness really...

NNChangeAgain

However, as this thread shows, nobody cares. Pastor Niemoller springs to mind.

lurking there are other MN threads that have debated that in more depth, to be fair - it's just there this thread has gone in a different direction!

framey it's been a while since I travelled by train, but I don't think a standard rail fare is restricted to a specific train, like a flight is. JC and his team could reuse the tickets for the train they had reservations on but failed to catch, they wouldn't need to buy new tickets, I don't think.

People don't half change goalposts when it comes to Corybn. He can't do right for wrong.

Corbyn can't change his pants without the media making a meal of it. How about Richsrd Branson is he squeaky clean, doesn't matter he's a media golden boy

he's a media golden boy

Yes, he is - he's had an amazing PR team and worked incredibly hard to secure that image.

JC could learn a thing or two from him.

So he isn't claiming 1st class train tickets on his expenses. Wow let's get rid of him just for that. How fucking dare he not spend our money on 1st class travel. Now let's take a moment and think why the media don't want him in power

If he missed the train on which he had reservations then surely he must know better than anyone that "reserved" seats are often left empty! It's pretty disingenuous of him to suggest that it is the train company's fault when in fact he has contributed to the issue by booking and not using reserved seats (thus by his logic meaning passengers on the previous train couldn't use them).

Although today he seems to have admitted that he was looking for a seat next to his wife. If you want to guarantee two seats together on a train, you either book or pay to sit in first class. Also, it's far more efficient and environmentally friendly to run busier trains than to have lots of empty trains going around the country.

I think there are problems with the railways and I think Corbyn has good intentions, but he really has made himself look an idiot with this selectively presented publicity stunt. It's a shame that the important issues have got lost in his over simplistic presentation - which is one of the issues I have with his economic policies too.

Well it really isn't a plot to discredit JC, I don't blame Virgin for pointing out that what he claimed wasn't factually correct. JC made a claim about the overly packed train and Virgin had clear evidence to the contrary. Honestly this whole incident has left JC with egg on his face. TBH I think too much is being made of it, then again JC started it by publishing the video and he should have expected Richard Branson to have a response. The shame is that he has a good point that has been completely overshadowed now.

I like JC but this episode just confirms my opinion that he is not a competent leader. He couldn't even pull a political stunt successfully and damaged his image of integrity a little in the process.

How fucking dare he not spend our money on 1st class travel.

He is being paid for his time and has taken on a very important, responsible position. As leader of the opposition he is paid not just to represent his party but also everyone who voted labour.

Sometimes that means not arsing around for three hours on a train.

If this is the worst thing the media can come up with yo discredit him - he can't be that bad, let's not start on previous prolific MPs and the more scandalous/sneaky/deceitful things that have been hidden.

Agree with LurkingHusband re the CCTV release also...............

Poor Corbyn