To ask how generous your OH's are and to wonder whether my DP is tight?!

[Frustrated01]

I'm aware this post will make me seem mercenery; but it's really not about money, more about attitude and thoughtfulness.

Together 4 years, live together in his house. He is a 'high earner' (earns 3 x my salary) He pays the mortgage (as its his house) and a couple of bills, I pay the rest of the bills, buy all the food and do all of the cooking and cleaning.

We take it in turns to pay when we go out, but it is mostly me as I always feel guilty that his outgoings for the house are probably more than mine.

Over the past couple of weeks, it has been an unfortunate coincidence that a lot of my friends have had big birthdays and nearly all of their partners have taken them away or for a weekend break or, TBH just been NICE and treated them.

All the girls at work seem to have lovely DPs who take them out to dinner on a Friday night or occasionally just do something nice for them, just because? I saw one of my friends the other night and she said that she is going to New York in November, for her 30th, as a present from her DP as he knows she's always wanted to go. I honestly just sat there thinking how lovely that was and how pigs would literally fly before my boyfriend ever did anything like that for me.

In the four years we have been going out, he has never once taken me for a night away, a weekend away or a holiday (and YES I have done all of these things for him before anyone says anything) If we go out for dinner or to the cinema or anything it's nearly always me that suggests it and then again everything is mostly split exactly 50/50

Every year for my birthday or Christmas he just says 'What do you want for your birthday/ Christmas?' I always feel bad saying anything really in case he thinks it's too expensive so normally just say 'A bottle of perfume' and there it is, wrapped up, a bottle of perfume. Don't get me wrong, it's what I asked for, but where is the thought?! Where is the romance?! And God forbid he should spend more than £50 on me.

Last year he wanted to go on a scuba diving holiday (we're both quite keen divers) I had just bought a new car and honestly just didn't have the money....so he went on his own. My friends and my mum blew up and said it was awful that he would rather have gone away on his own...than pay to bring his girlfriend of 4 years with him. I was upset that he went but at the end of the day, I didn't have the money so fine.

I got in the other night and told him about my friends surprise 30th New York trip, I gently 'joked' that he would never do anything like that for me and he said 'Well no, I haven't paid my mortgage off yet. Until I pay my mortgage off, extravagant gifts like that just wouldn't ever happen'

He is 30 and puts nearly £1500 per month into a savings account, he over pays on his mortgage by a vast amount each month and then the rest is his 'spending money'

I get that his approach is sensible, but for gods sake I'm not asking him to be 'extravagent' every month, I'm just saying that actually, once every couple of years it would be nice to be taken away for the weekend or for a night in a nice hotel. Just like I do for him on his birthday etc.

I know I sound unreasonable and princessey in this post. I promise I'm not, I'm just fed up of there not being any joy in life, of him going on about money all the time and banging on constantly about paying off his mortgage.

In every other way our relationship is great, he is an incredibly loving and supporting boyfriend and we are best friends. But there is just no surprise or romance- ever.

2 people in the last 2 days have asked me whether I'm sure I want to spend the rest of my life with this man, because they think although he is lovely that he is tight and mercenary.

I'm sitting here feeling really down and wondering whether he is totally right for me. But I really am not lying when I say that he is incredibly supporting and loving In other ways.

He priorities me over every one else in his life, he does anything and everything he can for me. He supports me in my hobby, comes to cheer on the side line in every single competition I've done, he fixes my car, massages my feet after a long day at work, listens to me for hours on end if I have a problem, he was my absolute rock last year when my dad was ill. He walks my dog, cooks dinner if I am on a late etc, listens endlessly to my girlfriends man problems when they come over and buys us all wine and chocolate for our girly nights, brings them tea and toast in the morning etc. Literally everything practical and emotional he is fine and a godsend, but he just doesn't make me feel 'special' in anyway. He is just one of those 'nice guys' that would literally do anything to help anyone, everyone says it and he is always going out of his way to help people efc which is one of the reasons why I love him.

I don't know. I guess that is the problem, the fact that I just don't feel that special to him, that everything he does for me I know he's probably done for his previous girlfriends and the fact that he went on holiday on his own, rather than pay to take me with him and won't ever spend any more than £50 on a present for me or reluctantly pays for meals out etc is just making it all feel a bit 'blah' and being surrounded by friends and colleagues who all seem to be wined and dined is making me feel even more meh.

SO, is he normal and my expectations are just too high? Or is he a bit tight?

Are your DPs generous?

Frustrated01.

He is NOT paying more than you. He is simply paying towards an asset and ensuring you won't have any claims on it.

You are paying the day-to-day bills, buying the food and doing the cooking and cleaning. You will have NOTHING to show for it.

You really need to see this. It has nothing to do with whether or not he buys you a birthday present. You are getting a raw deal irrespective of the present.

Oh, another miser.

Apart from violence, the least attractive quality in a man.

Bleurgh.

The going on holiday alone rather than paying for his gf of 4 years to go with... this is so weird. So so weird, cant get my head round it. Your his gf....surley he wants to spend his time with you???

The splitting everything 50/50 wouldnt bother me, and the present thing (as some guys really dont understand the concept of thought, in his mind you got what you wanted win win) but agree its nice to be treated, especially if youve done that to him. Are you happy with other aspects of the relationship? Do you think you can over look this? Or is this (tbh imo strange) behaviour a deal breaker?

OP - you want different things from life. You know that now after 4 years, why waste more time?

The rights and wrongs of it doesn't really matter, you aren't compatable.

(was he able to clean before you moved in? What state was the house in when you were still living elsewhere and dating? Funny how many men can manage to clean, cook and have an ironed shirt every morning when they live alone suddenly become incapable of doing these things when they live with a woman.)

It sounds unlikely he'll marry you

If he wanted to, he would.

What's in it for him? Really, wake up OP

There is no harm in being sensible with money and planning for a secure financial future.

However, this man sounds selfish, mercenary (yes, I agree with your friends and family there), stingy and mean.

He goes on holiday without you knowing full well that it was a holiday you too would have loved to have gone on but couldn't afford.

You are his unpaid cook, bottlewasher and cleaner plus you save him from having to pay some of the bills.

He isn't bothered about marrying you.

I would bet that he would baulk at any request to protect you financially by adding your name to the title deeds of his house and to the mortgage. If his answer to that one isn't "NO" then I am the Pope.

You won't have any type of security with him.

I hope you consider whether or not there is any worthwhile future here.

What would happen, out of interest, if when he asked what you wanted for your birthday you said you wanted a trip to New York, or a scuba diving holiday for yourself to make up for the one he left you at home for?

I suspect we can all take a pretty accurate guess at the answer to that. It would be no because the mortgage isn't paid off, no because there is less than £gazillion in his (yes his, not your) savings or pension.

You are not a couple.
You are his live in lodger, cleaner & shag.

Couples do not have a different standard of living to each other.
They don't go on holidays separately because one can't afford to go.

This will not change because he's got everything he needs from this arrangement.

"He does pay out more than me".

No he doesn't. He pays out about £1,000 a month which he will either get back if he sells the house (mortgage) or that protects his asset (insurance etc). You pay out £500 you will never get back. And it's not even in proportion to what you both earn!

I can't imagine how you're feeling after reading all of the above. Have you got anyone in RL you can talk to about it? to you in case you're feeling overwhemed.

OP I think you have had lots of good advice.

The birthday presents / treats thing is clouding the main issue I think. It is good that he is supportive of you but I am troubled by what you say.
The worrying parts for me are:

1. He went away on a holiday which you would have enjoyed but he did not offer to pay for you but he could still over-pay his mortgage. This is indicative of his feelings towards you. He should have paid for you or not gone away or arranged a cheaper holiday for you both. Are you less entitled to a holiday?
2. He is paying for a future assett for himself but there is no sign of him being seriously committed to you and you are paying significant amounts but with no investment for yourself in your future.
3. He must know that you don't have to have an expensive wedding. It would appear that he does not wish you to have any financial claim on him.

I would have a conversation as to what he wants for your future. You would need to point out that you need to be considering saving for your own future and a property.

As others have said the holiday would be the dealbreaker for me. Are you worried that if you speak to him you will appear mercenary? You need to look after your own future and that is not mercenary.

If you feel committed to the relationship I feel that the previous suggestion of asking to be included in the mortgage is a good one.

mixety a) you are not living rent free. You are splitting fhe bills 50/50.
b) he should be paying maintenance

a) bills are not rent though. When I rented j paid both bills and rent. Now I just pay bills.

B) yes of course he should...? Neither he or I would ever think differently. It doesn't change the fact it has an impact on his disposable income, and not on mine.

Do you think I am being hard done by? Interested to know why, as I genetally think our situation is fair. Of course I might like it if he bought me treats more often but I don't think it's a measure of his love or respect...

Trust your instinct OP, it's telling you this isn't right, that's why you're asking on here. Trust all of us too, some people are careful with money, some people call that tight. Your partner is tight, as are many people, but he also sounds selfish and mean and controlling. This will get worse until you call it a day and are quite literally left with nothing. Get out now and find the partner you really deserve. By all means talk to him about this before you go and tell him how you feel, tell him you need financial security either by going on the deeds of the house or by marriage, but be prepared for the harsh reality of what he will choose as I'd put money on it not being you. Sorry and good luck

No. I never get treated. In 6 years I haven't had a meal out or bunch of flowers. I don't get birthday presents. I don't really think it's important. I don't want 'stuff'. He is a good man who cares about me, puts no pressure on me and supports me. I wish more people in my life spent less money and more time on me.

When did you start living together? Because he clearly views you as a casual girlfriend rather than a life partner. Is moving in together a fairly recent thing, or have you been living together in a serious relationship for most of those four years?

Why does he earn 3X more than you? Given you don't have any children or financial commitments together, what's the reason? Is he comfortable with that reason, or does he resent it/not take you seriously as a result?

Attitudes towards ambition/money can be can real deal-breakers.

Your friends have even gone so far as to ask you. That says a lot. Friends don't usually do that unless, well, there are some serious alarm bells ringing. They can see it, how miserly he is. And yy, it's the mortgage now, next it will be his pension (he was overpaying his mortgage and so didn't pay the max on his pension, now he needs to do that), not bothered about marrying when you made it clear this was something you wanted, etc etc.

You are incompatible.

I'm 45 and know quite a few men like this. They are now mortgage free, fat savings and fat pensions, chasing after women 20 years younger who they still cannot get because they are so cheap. If those women are as rich as they are, they don't want some guy 20 years older who doesn't want to share.

I was 30 when I started out again. I was divorced. He wasn't tight, but he decided he never wanted children. The best thing I ever did was leave him.

I'm now happily married for 14 years and we had 3 children together. We don't have much money, but we share everything. We talk about big purchases. We plan and agree together. We're a team.

Don't sell yourself short.

'tell him you need financial security either by going on the deeds of the house or by marriage,'

If you want marriage, then don't settle for anything less. There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting marriage, or with not wanting it, for that matter. Plenty of people do, and plenty of people don't. Neither is wrong. But you do and you have been clear on that. His 'not bothered' is the same as he doesn't want it. That's fine, too. But it means you are incompatible. Not that you are wrong, princessy or wanting too much.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of men who want marriage, too.

Can't you see that you are being used?
Please have some self respect and stop being his unpaid maid!

mixety he earns three times what you earn but you pay everything 50/50 APART FROM on HIS asset, your home. Presumably rather than splitting everything 50/50 (which is unfair to start with) and instead splitting everything 50/50 except for the house is so he can prove youve not directly contributed towards the house. So he keeps his asset.

Does the maintenance payment take his disposable income to below your disposable income?
.

Calleigh - I don't know our exact disposable incomes, but i think that with his sizeable mortgage payment/ maintenance/ taxes/ other house and DSS expenses he probably still has more than me most months but not that much more.

Thing is, why should I get a claim on his house? Apart from the fact it is emotionally my home, that is the only reason that I can see but then if we split I definitely wouldn't want to stay in it anyway. One day we might well buy 'together' but until then I don't see that if we split up I should be able to claim some of the value of his house. I would for now rather save the money I dont spend on rent than pay towards the house and stake a claim on it in the event of a split.

Hope this isn't derailing OPs thread - our situations are not the same but some similarities. Just interesting to think about these issues, for me.

Other house expses as in other costs relating to the house (repairs, upkeep etc) not as in he has a whole other house as well.

Lots of good advice already.

My point is the cleaning and how you came to be the one cleaning.
OP there are hundreds of threads on here from women who have ended up in relationships with dc, that their partners take no responsibility for. Once baby arrives, their lives change behond recognition whilst there oh don't change one bit. They never get to go out, they work, cook clean and look after the dc 24/7 the oh carries on with hobbies, evening out, busy weekends. They might "babysit" their own dc once in a while.......

Add also the financial way he is, who do you think is going to pay for stuff for dc? Childcare for when you go back to work? Food for all of you? New baby clothes, shoes? What if after paying all that out you can't afford a holiday? Will he go alone? Maybe take dc but not you?

What if you can't afford to go back to work? How will he view you? Expect XYZ done no moaning, have pittance of a house keeping. Scowl if you say you need more this week?

He doesn't want to marry you because it would Jeopardise his assets. Nothing to do with the wedding costing £20,000.

This is not a relationship and it will only get worse, if you have a dc with hia, you will be so far up shit creek without a paddle. No money and nowhere to go.

Listen to your mum and friends.
I agree with pp, friends don't tend to get involved unless there are massive alarm bells going off. They are on the outside looking in they can see what you can't at the moment.

Corkie spot on.
He may be a lovely bloke and good company etc but thats different to being a good partner or someone to spend your life with and have children with.
The hol without you is shocking. Different if its a sport or hobby you dont enjoy, but goodness, it was one you do!! After four years id expect a partner to treat me if i couldnt afford it. And certainly fuck the over payrnent for a couple of months.
Sounds like he may well be a nice guy but hes certainly keeping things casual as far as commitment goes or joint finances

Listen to expatinscotland and the other posters. They are spot on. He is massively gaining from this financially. He has the perfect set up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he's had some legal advice on this (I am a lawyer myself) because by not getting you to give him any money towards the mortgage or the main bills he is making sure that in the future you can't claim some sort of interest in the property.

Personally, the holiday alone wouldn't bother me because I holiday alone too.

However. This relationship is totally unbalanced.

OP, he is totally taking you for a fool. No. YOU are the one allowing it.

Please start making a life for yourself. House, etc. Stop throwing your money and energy away while he builds up his nest egg.

Before you know it you'll be X years down the line and he will be exchanging you for a younger model....

Reminds me of the story of a woman I heard of who after 16 years of living together was left with only a microwave to her name. Another one who had to start all over after 23 years.
Yes, it happens! Please don't be that fool for "love".

"He priorities me over every one else in his life, he does anything and everything he can for me. He supports me in my hobby, comes to cheer on the side line in every single competition I've done, he fixes my car, massages my feet after a long day at work, listens to me for hours on end if I have a problem, he was my absolute rock last year when my dad was ill..."

I suspect his over paying on the mortgage and trying tos ave money is also about love for you too actually. There are a few of us women on the thread who are similar - careful with money, don't over spend etc etc. That can mean we make very good stable partners.

The other side of this is the law. All the lawyers on mumsnet can tell you that this is absolutely classic. This man is doing exactly the right thing to protect his assets and position - he does not marry yuou. I f you married then even though the property is in his name only you would get at least 50% of it after a longish marriage. If you aren't married you don't get a single penny in most cases (and one could argue why should you if the other half earned the money - same in my marriage - on my divorce my ex got far more than he put in either practically or financially because we were married and divorce law is unfair on higher earners in the UK0. So do make sure you kno that if you pay for things like food that does not count to any kind of equitable contribution to an owned property whereas if you paid part of the mortgage it would be. If he marriss you that all changes and in addition he would have a duty to pay spousal support in many cases (as indeed would you to him if you married and you earned more as many many women these days do - plenty of women earn more than their husbands and the payments go the other direction on divorce).

Holidays alone doesn't matter,. I adore being on my own. Lucky people who go on holidays alone.