Why do people still think it's ok to use racist terms re gypsies?

[GingerbreadGingerbread]

I am from a Romany gypsy family but a couple of generations ago. You would never have a clue if you met my parents and came to my family home as it was only on one parent's side and my mum and dad are wealthy and I am privately educated and have an academic career. However I am ashamed to say that I am nervous to tell anyone of my heritage. I am proud of my family and my gypsy grandparents who I was closer to than anyone in the world and spent the most time with whilst they were still alive. They were honest, principle led and amazing people. However I lost count of the number of occasions educated seemingly nice normal people come out with: "they are just disgusting gyppos aren't they?" Just now a colleague burst into my office saying someone had stolen his fork and they must be a "thieving pikey gyppo". Why is this seen as acceptable? It's disgusting and just makes me dislike the arrogant ignorant idiots! Are any MN willing to come forward and admit to using this language and explain why they find it acceptable?

OP, that is rubbish that people in your office use language like that. It is unacceptable. Is it a small office? I have never heard terms like that slung around in the places I have worked thankfully.

You and your family sound very decent and upstanding but unfortunately some of the travelling community behave poorly and then you get a stereotype which must be really difficult for the good people within your community to have to see/listen to.

Ginger I don't use terms like these towards people, and don't know anyone who does (at least, anyone who does in front of me): what did your colleague say when you called him on this, out of interest?

bagina

Your hatred shines through your post. "Shitting under a bridge" (why would seeing that cause you to use racist terms against an entire group?) "most people's reality" (how can you say that?!). Your post sounds like you are trying very hard to justify these terms being used. Do you tar every person with your opinion based on others of your ethnic group you have experienced? You can wriggle away from t all you want but your prejudices shine through.

hefzi

I started his thread immediately after he said it as a reaction as I was angry. (Incidentally he's been using sexist language towards me all week.) I didn't challenge him.

Five minutes later he returned and said the word again and I said "please don't say that". He just looked a bit embarrassed and tried to be overly pleasant.

Eh up, bagina OP's homed in on you for a little misdirected Rant

bagina was not being racist

She was pointing out what joe public thinks. And yes I have heard it all.

Take your misdirected anger and point it somewhere else.

gingerbread

bagina hasn't justified the use of any racist terms, she just put forward a theory as to why some people may use racist terms.

very different to what you are posting about her.

Ooh ginger you really want me to have given you what you wanted. Jog on my dear. I am relaying what I hear from my community. I know that people hate the travelling community round here which I think leads to them using racist language. You asked why I think that my above explanation is why.

newes

Unfortunately for you I am free to state my opinion and challenge others freely on here just as you are. You patronising me won't prevent that.

You go right ahead, Gingerbread. I wouldn't dream of stopping you and it's no skin off my arse that you don't appear to be able to read posts properly.

It was thought at one point that it was racist to use the word Gypsy and that Traveller was preferable but this has changed again. The communities themselves didn't want to come under the umbrella of Traveller as there are many distinctions between Irish Travellers, Romany Gypsies, Roma, Welsh Gypsies, Scottish Gypsies, New Travellers, Bargees etc.

It isn't racist to use the term Gypsy. It is racist to use insults such as 'Gypsy Thief' and 'Traveller scum'. Insulting somebody is being insulting. Insulting somebody and prefacing the insult with their ethnicity is racist. Insert any other ethnicity in front of an insult and most people would accept that as racism but many people still do not realise that Gypsy/Traveller is an ethnicity not a state of mobility.

I also think bagina's post was a justification of racism. She argued that, in empirical terms, "chaos, crime and pure filth" were associated with the community and this is why they are discriminated against, implying that this was a reasonable reaction.

I am not doubting that there are some tensions associated with the behaviour of some travellers. However, to tar an entire community with this is discriminatory. Not least when there is a long history of such discrimination in play.

If someone is shitting under a bridge, then what is wrong with saying that person is shitting under a bridge?

My dh has extensive experience of clearing up shit left by travellers, due to the nature of his job. We have also had to move house due to some fairly extreme antisocial and criminal behaviour when a large group of travellers set up next to our home, so I do feel nervous when a group of travellers set up near us, due to past experience.

I know, however, that travellers are not an homogenous group, that there are good and bad as you find in any way society, and I certainly do not condone derogatory terms about travelling people.

I don't see this where I live much anymore ..I'm from Ireland and there are families of travellers living in our communities and some of them
are my neighbours
My husband who is Scottish but lives in England, used the word 'pikey' to describe gypsies and I was so angry! Despise that word ..it's not a word we use here to describe travellers

Thank you shovetheholly that is how I read the post also. The tone was incendiary and it was tarring an entire group.

Because some people are bellends.

shove I was talking specifics: the travelling groups that have been coming to my area and city for the past 2 decades. It was a description of what has happened. Yes I think there's a strong likelihood that these events have led to massive hatred which I believe causes people to use hate language. "Pikey scum" is a phrase you would hear in any pub here on any given day.

There is nothing wrong with saying someone is shitting under a bridge if that happened. What is wrong is to extrapolate from that that all travellers shit under bridges, and are therefore filthy, chaotic criminals.

(The term 'criminals' is a reach from shitting under a bridge, too, don't you think? I wouldn't describe that as 'criminal' - anti-social maybe, but criminal implies something far more serious).

Gingerbread what a twat! I'm glad he was embarrassed, and I think you're right - people who use unthinking racist language often are unthinkingly sexist also Pull him up every time, anyway, even if it makes you feel sad/angry/like you shouldn't have to.

You shouldn't have to, but he clearly isn't aware of how to behave - I work in a university, and since pulling up my sexist colleagues on their misogyny every.single.time, at least I no longer have to listen to that shit any more. (I am certain they still do it, but I can't police them all the time )

You're trying to be too pc! The woman shitting on the path was a traveller; that's enough round here to create a Reputation For the group. The crimes were entering private land, fly tipping, burglary, mugging and assault, to name a few. This is reality, not how you think it should be.

I too would not use racist language but my experience of travellers in my local area, the way they abuse people, abuse their poor animals ( shocking) etc, does not make me warm to them.

I never considered the term gypsy, or gyppo racist as such and I think it's because the negative connotations that are linked with that are brought on by the group themselves, it's something that they could change, whereas calling someone some of the other typical racist names is just not on because the colour of someone's skin is beyond their control, or where they or their parents are from, there is nothing negative there except a persons own ignorance, whereas using gypsy (gyppo I would t use as it's much more crude) reminds me more of using a word like criminal - okay it's a negative label but within their control. I hope this makes sense. And I say this as someone who's great grandfather was a Romany gypsy.

"The woman shitting on the path was a traveller; that's enough round here to create a Reputation For the group."

Please tell me you can see what is wrong with this.

If not, try replacing the word 'black person' for 'traveller'. Or 'woman'. Or 'gay person'.

I also live in a city where there is a history of travellers visiting - Sheffield, to be precise. I am fully apprised of the tensions that can be created by different cultures, languages, and living standards! It can be really challenging in some cases, and I have every sympathy where there is genuinely a record of anti-social and criminal behaviour, just as I have every sympathy for the victims where there are white, settled families also acting in anti-social and criminal ways.

But that does NOT mean that all gypsy or traveller families are a problem, any more than it means all white families are a problem. There are pubs here where you might hear the phrase "pikey scum". There are also many decent people of all classes who wouldn't dream of using that phrase.

I hate the way that you anti-PC types always claim that you're more 'real' than the rest of us. You're not. You're just nastier.

I don't think people realise the origin of pikey, same as 'throwing a paddy'. I've heard both used in the workplace, by people who I should imagine would rather cut their tongues out than use the P or N word.