Why do people still think it's ok to use racist terms re gypsies?

[GingerbreadGingerbread]

I am from a Romany gypsy family but a couple of generations ago. You would never have a clue if you met my parents and came to my family home as it was only on one parent's side and my mum and dad are wealthy and I am privately educated and have an academic career. However I am ashamed to say that I am nervous to tell anyone of my heritage. I am proud of my family and my gypsy grandparents who I was closer to than anyone in the world and spent the most time with whilst they were still alive. They were honest, principle led and amazing people. However I lost count of the number of occasions educated seemingly nice normal people come out with: "they are just disgusting gyppos aren't they?" Just now a colleague burst into my office saying someone had stolen his fork and they must be a "thieving pikey gyppo". Why is this seen as acceptable? It's disgusting and just makes me dislike the arrogant ignorant idiots! Are any MN willing to come forward and admit to using this language and explain why they find it acceptable?

Racist language is never acceptable and should be challenged, but one of the main reasons that prejudice continues is that there is a lot of evidence and issues that continue to present a negative image of the travelling community in whatever form, shape or origin.
If a settled community only experiences a travelling one in the form of property damage, theft, anti-social behaviour and littering/flytipping, it's not going to diminish the fear, antipathy and anger felt by the settled community.
It's not a justification for the racism, it's a possible explanation for the hatred not diminishing over time and still being accepted in wider circles than racist behaviour would be.

I have had a post deleted and i have no bloody idea why. It was not rascist, inflammatory or nasty in any way, shape or form.

This is my first deletion ever and i am gobsmacked tbh, there honestly was nothing in it that was objectionable.

I cannot remember itsmines, but if we were breaking guidelines, would like to know why volleyball mums posts accusing me, amongst others of being rascist still stands.

Really pissed off about this.

tooolds and itsmines posts were descriptions of Traveller behaviour they had witnessed personally. I believe they also stressed it was just their experience and the posts were in response to the OP's initial question.

Although I personally don't use the terms previously mentioned, I know they're regularly used in the area I live in. Close to where I live, the village has the displeasure of hosting a 'traditional' travellers horse fair. I say displeasure not because it is travellers, but because the hassle of it. There are regularly fights, the roads have to be closed, as do local businesses and trades.

My DD worked at a shop a lot closer to the horse fair than where we live, and she wasn't allowed to go to work that day, therefore she would not be paid. Such businesses decide to close around the time of the horse fair as things will go 'missing'.

As there is a traveller community locally they usually frequent at the shop DD works in, and multiple times the traveller girls have been caught stealing on CCTV, so each time they are caught rather than getting the police involved (who don't really want the hassle) the staff just ban the people involved. The father of a girl caught on CCTV came in once to pay for the things his daughter had taken as he didn't want his family to have a reputation for thieving. The lads always try to buy fags without ID so DD won't serve them, but she's always spoken highly of the gentlemen because she finds them to be very polite. It's a shame but some do live up to the stereotype that has been built for them, and those are remembered more than the polite ones.

Thank you Newes.

My post was simply relating my personal experience with travellers, which was negative, but not abusive, rascist or nasty. I said although i had had only bad experiences, i did not want to tar all travellers with the same brush, and asked for some positive stories.

I am suprised at how miffed i am about this deletion. It makes me look rascist, and i am not.

Should start posting on baby names. Obviously have an opinion or experience to relate on a thread like this is not allowed. Unless you cry rascist in every other sentence.

I think OP got exactly what she wanted out of her thread, tooold. Although it does sting to be portrayed as something you are not, I know.

Most average, ordinary people dislike anarchy. Breaking rules, whether laws or social expectations often unsettles and frightens people and frightened people get defensive and sometimes aggressive.
Looking different, wearing different clothes, speaking a different language, behaving in a way considered very atypical often causes a negative reaction and that's where you get racist, disablist and sexist language from the ignorant and territorial.
But if the group actually has a negative impact other than just existing, if they are seen as scroungers, taking things that don't belong to them, destroying environments and not being held responsible and punished, then the response is to alienate them even further, by language and othering.
Travellers are rarely perceived as bringing anything beneficial to the areas they choose as a site to stay, and untrue or not, it's not changed much in the last 40 years. So the racist and abusive language is accepted by the majority, in a way that they might not accept other forms of racism towards other minority groups.

Agree with Solitary. We had Irish travellers camp on a children's playground near my home very recently. The feeling wasn't prejudiced or hatred towards these people, it was fear. There was vandalism, fire settling and burning of rubbish and non stop shoplifting at the little supermarket, who could not keep up with the stream of theft. Everything was reported to the police, but no arrests were made.

Because people's experiences of travellers that are negative are deemed to be racist

Personally I did not report anyone who just referred to a negative experience, I reported the people who disqualified several different ethnic groups on the basis of a bad experience.

I believe that everyone should be taken on the value of their own behaviour. But not only are there a lot of people on this thread who do not subscribe to that opinion, but they also bang on about travellers, when the thread is supposed to be about the treatment of gypsies.

Travellers used to be very useful in the old days. They travelled from place to place, doing seasonal work, trading horses, telling stories and repairing pots and pans. Modern society does not have any use for that lifestyle any more and there are very few legal campsites. They've been severely stigmatised.

I lived in Dublin in one of the shittiest parts of the city. I had seven break-ins in two years, it was an awful experience. Then one day a couple of traveller caravans parked down the road and the next thing I hear is my neighbours blaming them for thefts and suchlike! I didn't have any break-ins at the time.

Then another time I was staying the summer in a village and a bunch of travellers came and parked on a little green patch in front of the shops. They had absolutely beautiful, state-of-the-art caravans, but that was apparently cause for grievance among the villagers. Their children were gorgeous, rosy-cheeked wee things but when they entered the shop they all had their hands in the air, because their parents had obviously told them to do this to avoid being accused of stealing.

And yes I have also seen members of the traveller community behaving badly, but really they are people who can't win as far as the settled community is concerned, so I can understand that some of them just couldn't give a fuck.

"Gypsy" is the term used by the EU to describe the indigenous nomadic peoples of Europe, of which the Romany are the largest single (sort of single) group. Travellers & Sami, too. All those terms can be used as insults, the problem is the attitude that wants to insult, not the words. Change the words & new words will just be used to insult.

The EU talks a lot of hot air about has huge interest in trying to deal with the social inequalities experienced by the Gypsy groups.

I ran a care business a few years and was recruiting new staff. Two middle aged ladies came to see me and we talked about life experiences and attitudes etc. At the end of the time, they went very quiet and quite tearful and said they had something to tell me. Experience means this is usually when someone admits to a criminal record. They 'admitted' to a traveller background and assumed that meant that there would obviously be no offer of employment. I found that incredibly sad.

In fact, it transpired that at least 75% of my senior staff were from a settled traveller background and my experience was that they were incredibly hard working and extremely loyal. They never let me down once, in a field where that was quite common.

Incidentally, having done some family history, a number of factors suggest that my great grandfather was from a Sussex Romany family. My mum used to be a bit careless with comments and I did enjoy reminding her of our heritage!

Aren't Romany gypsies totally different to Irish 'travellers' ?

So positive experiences of a member of a community reflects well on that community, but negative experiences are racist?

If you can't tar them as theives because the ones you have met shoplifted then you can't say they're loyal and hard working based on the ones you met either.

As someone whose post was deleted for some unknown reason, I actually welcome Fays post. One of the sentences in my deleted post was asking for positive experiences, as all mine had been negative.
It must be very difficult at times for members of that community.

Atenco, if mine was a post that you reported, leading it to be removed, I would be genuinely interested (not having a go at all), in what was in it that offended you. I did refer to 'travellers' and the thread is about gypsies, but as I understand it, many gypsies refer to themselves as travellers now - and apart from anything else, how would I know?

I really am not pig ignorant, but I think approaching a 'settlement' (wrong word, but cannot think of the right one) and asking 'are you gypsies or travellers?' would not go down too well.

itsmine and Morris - agree.

No, Too Old, I only asked for two posts to be removed and those people haven't appeared back on the thread.

I don't remember your post, but certainly you are not expressing yourself in such blanket terms as I find objectionable.

Experience has taught me that people who are persistently discriminated against by mainstream society will generally be a mite prejudiced against members of the majority and anyway they can't do anything right so why bother.

Local authorities are supposed to provide proper halting sites for travellers and roma but they don't. So of course they are illegally camping in places without proper facilities.

Atenco, I can understand the desire to travel and that there are very few pitches available for travellers. However, each time Irish travellers have camped in my town, they have left a huge amount of rubbish to clear up. For example, the travellers who camped in the playground recently brought a truck filled with hardcore and trees with them. This was dumped by the swings. Refilled again, parked on the road all day and dumped again before they left. The cost to the council for clearing the land was huge. The council certainly attempted to engage with the travellers and minimise the disruption and mess as they delivered bin bags several times to the playground.

I think some Traveller communities do just that, itsmine

I think there are often issues with changes of use when buying land, getting utilities sorted, rubbish collection etc. Since councils don't really want travellers there to start with, it's not a quick or easy process. Also I should think buying land with permission for residence rather than just for animals or crops is very significantly more expensive in this country, quite possibly beyond even a large group of contributors.

And there was be huge protests from local communities about travellers being given planning permission for a site, if this thread is anything to go by.

duh there -was- would be huge protests...

If they were just allowed to travel like the old days then there would be none of this.
The old hawkers, rag and bone, furniture and basket makers, fortune tellers, musicians, used to be able to earn a small living from their trades, selling in streets, door to door and at fairs.
They didn't bother anyone, but then the laws changed
Most travellers don't travel any more. It may sound a contradiction in terms, but those who became house dwellers still consider themselves as travellers, as it's in the blood.
Romany is a way of life with it's own set of norms and belief systems, many of which we would object to ourselves.
Standing up when a man enters the room anyone? Divorce unheard of and if you do leave your husband, you don't get to take the kids, they belong to their father.
I have family members that whilst they use fb and other social media their husbands approve what they write, dress kids up for photo's, show houses etc, and of course register in the man's name with the woman as a middle name.
So Ted Alison smith would be your fb name