Why do people still think it's ok to use racist terms re gypsies?

[GingerbreadGingerbread]

I am from a Romany gypsy family but a couple of generations ago. You would never have a clue if you met my parents and came to my family home as it was only on one parent's side and my mum and dad are wealthy and I am privately educated and have an academic career. However I am ashamed to say that I am nervous to tell anyone of my heritage. I am proud of my family and my gypsy grandparents who I was closer to than anyone in the world and spent the most time with whilst they were still alive. They were honest, principle led and amazing people. However I lost count of the number of occasions educated seemingly nice normal people come out with: "they are just disgusting gyppos aren't they?" Just now a colleague burst into my office saying someone had stolen his fork and they must be a "thieving pikey gyppo". Why is this seen as acceptable? It's disgusting and just makes me dislike the arrogant ignorant idiots! Are any MN willing to come forward and admit to using this language and explain why they find it acceptable?

I can't get past "tarred with the same brush" being held up a as a racist slur. This contributes nothing, I realise.

Sorry, I haven't RTFT and I don't have time to just now, got to get ready to go to a family gathering.
Ever since seeing the children's tv programme, Kizzy, back in the 70's and having read the book a few times, I've always thought of gypsies as being romantic! David Essex has a lot to answer for
I also had a Romany Sindy doll with a lovely gypsy skirt and shawl, one of my favourite Sindy's.
A friend once went on a holiday in a gypsy horse-drawn caravan and I was so jealous!
When I think of the word gypsy, these are the images I think of.
I've heard people I know making outrageous comments about local travellers who have been in the area, but I've heard inherently racist comments from them as well
Not exactly sure what my point is tbh! Sorry, not helpful. I think I'm trying to say that gypsy has a positive connotation for me, especially Romany.

Gingerbread, I don't blame you for leaving this thread. Some of the posts have been (sadly, predictably) utterly vile. In case you are still reading, have some

Many people who express unthinking prejudice have no idea of the persecution the Roma and other groups have faced for centuries. I have been surprised to encounter widespread ignorance of the attempted genocide of the Roma during the Holocaust, for example.

Some people are just jerks and want to make generalisations about entire groups of other people. Anyone can be like that though, including travellers. I tell everyone I'm Irish ( because the reaction is so much better ) .

How are they a race though? It prejudiced sure but how is it racist? Genuine question. Happy to be educated.

Kiki - Roma came from India originally (lots of words are exactly the same as words in some Indian languages today) and strict purity laws usually mean that intermarriage is not so common. There are different types of travellers though and some countries like Britain the mixture with outsiders is a bit higher. eg Romnichal...

How are they a race though? It prejudiced sure but how is it racist?

They are ethnic groups. I'm not up to date on my reading on this matter, but I don't think there is any such thing as race in scientific terms.

They aren't a race, most certainly.
Having studied for years now and read most research papers it is clear they aren't.
Diaspora - where people are moved from their homeland for reasons such as war or famine, create Gypsies. As they originate from anywhere how can they be a race.
The language is thus complicated because over the years it has taken part of words and whole words from a variety of Countries, and areas.
E.g The Welsh Gypsies have a language all of their own, it isn't related to anything Welsh, really.
Much of the language is dying out now but there are academics researching and running projects in the study of the language to keep it from obsoletion.
Manchester University are running many of these.

This may help some understand a bit more and is quite user friendly.
www.romaninet.com/?sec=romanilanguage

gillybeanz Your contributin is most interesting, but I do feel that just saying that travellers and gypsies are not races, without clarifying the fact that race is not a scientific term, is unhelpful.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_categorization)

I think a lot of people have had bad experiences with irresponsible travellers re litter left, illegal camps etc. I suppose the culture doesn't really fit with the majority who live at a fixed address, pay council tax etc

I dislike racism, I can also understand frustrations of communities with the situations they encounter.

[no comment] on any of this thread

I commented up thread how we shouldn't tar all people with the same brush. I stand by that completely but after my experience this afternoon, I think we have to accept a lack of respect on both sides.
I was on a bus going towards the shopping centre, it stopped by the marshes and three young boys got on, I wouldn't have even said they were teenagers, and they didn't pay, the driver shouted to them to pay, he wouldn't be driving off until he did, they started kicking at the door of his caddy calling him a P**i and telling him to go home. It was horrific. Someone called them police and I got off the bus. The boys ran off ahead of me and then I got back on. It was intimidating, it was deeply unpleasant.
Two wrongs do not make a right and racist slurs should not be directed at them, despite them using it, because not all travellers will be like this. It's a bit of a self fullfilling prophecy the worse travellers are treated, the worse some of them seem to behave.
There needs to be a big shift in attitudes from both camps in order to cohabit peacefully and without hate.

Atenco
Thank you.

I don't think I have learned nearly enough yet, but do like reading around the various issues and history.
My family tree has many gypsy names as they tended to keep to their own years back.

An interesting one for some maybe? They would change their names to fit in with local people if they were staying for some time, so looking through records can be particularly difficult as you don't always recognise the changed version, sometimes having to conduct further research.

If anybody is overly invested like me There are records in all types of format at Liverpool Uni, you need to book to visit, but well worth the trip.

Also to add to this thread, I have a facebook friend who posts regular statuses referring to herself as a pikey (she has a traveller background). Is this acceptable?

rattsun

I have heard gypsies with Romany blood refer to those without as "Pikey"
To refer to oneself in this way sounds similar to the rappers using the "n" word in their music.

Am I right in thinking that itsmine was deleted for politely asking if any people from travelling backgrounds could tell her why some travellers are not willing to use their caravan toilets/public toilets to defacate in, but instead do so in bushes/public spaces?

WTF?? This is well known to happen, and she asked in a perfectly reasonable way. Why was she deleted?

PurpleAquilegia

Because people's experiences of travellers that are negative are deemed to be racist.

The deletions aren't sensible, I suspect the whole thread will go.

As a small business owner I was repeatedly stolen from by travellers. Every fucking year! To the point when I saw them coming I would shut the shop in the end and say I was done for the day.