AIBU to cry after being mocked for holding my knife the wrong way?

[kathybilbo]

This is going to sound ridiculous, but I have just come back from what should have been an enjoyable meal and I can't stop crying about comments that a couple of people made about my 'manners'

We went for a small work meal, just a few of us, and we were having a nice time until one of the other people there said something like "we can tell who comes from a council estate" and nodded at me (I can't remember exactly what was said I was just shocked). One of the others, an older lady who I did think was friendly, laughed and said in a patronizing way "you're holding your knife the 'poor' way, dear." I had no idea what they meant, but then they said that I hold the knife like a pencil, not the 'correct' way, I can't even really describe it but I'm sure people can imagine. I completely lost my appetite and felt really embarrassed and humiliated. They have always been a bit pretentious and they like loudly proclaiming at work about articles they read in the telegraph or tv shows they watched on bbc4 but have never been personally insulting. When they were saying all this the waiter was around bringing some more drinks and even he nodded and laughed along, which I didn't think was that professional.

And at the end of the meal my colleague who had brought the whole thing up was running her thumb around her plate and licking it clean (licking her thumb and running it around).

I think I was in shock really for a bit and it didn't really register but now I've got home I can't stop crying and feeling really embarrassed. I have to go back into work tomorrow but I think I might just call in as I don't think I can face them again really. I almost think I will get self-concious every time i use a knife now, I think I will have to try using it the other way.

Was it an official work function? If not will the HR department be able to get involved?

Have you gone into work OP? I do hope so.

Hullo chaps,

What with all this talk of manners and etiquette - can we just remind you of our rules about troll hunting?

Your colleagues have no grace or manners whatsoever. They let themselves down, not the other way around. Forget it. They're not worth your tears.

Just post the definitions of "etiquette" and "manners" with a PA smiley face.

They obviously have no manners or class...p.s a lot of ppl hold their 'wrong' im right handed and hold my knife in my right hand , i cant hold it any other way...i remember my teacher storming up to me at dinner in primary and forcing me to swap hands its was awful. OP there wankers!

I second the suggestion up thread about replying with the Jonathan Swift quote.
That would be a classy move , it's more dignified than insulting them , well I suppose it is insulting them but it's still very stylish.

Your colleagues have absolutely no idea. They may know the basic points of table etiquette, but have no manners and therefore zero class. for you, I feel dreadful on your behalf that you have to deal with such appalling people.

and the Telegraph is awful, anyway

Etiquette and manners are not mutually exclusive. The rules of good etiquette are in place in order to demonstrate good manners.
Someone with proper manners will never make another person feel small, however. Hilariously, some of those who think they are au fait with such things - but have only acquired knowledge of proper etiquette - are often so desperate to demonstrate their "class". Those with real class are cool.

Loved the post about mispronouncing hors d'oeuvre and the icy glare at a sniggerer and the swift interjection. Now that's a gentleman. Your colleagues are pillocks

I am utterly mortified! I can't believe they would treat you like that. For what it's worth I hold my knife like you, I've just tried to conceal the handle in my palm and literally couldn't even do it. This is such an English 'thing' there are so few countries in the world that operate such a contrived class system. I read a book called "Chavs, the demonisation of the working classes" and it was so insightful. Some affluent, "privileged" people are so threatened by working class people achieving equal/surpassing their achievements that putting down and patronising based on elaborate social nuances are their only weapon, seeing as tho professionally you're their equal. I am working class, the fact that my kids will have different opportunities to my own will never change the passion and complete anger I feel towards those who try to limit and pigeon hole those from less advantageous beginnings. I would completely deny any invitations for the future. I would be at my desk this morning - defiant, confident and smug that my family would never have taught me to treat others like they treated you, hold your head up high and do not let them treat you like this again. Personally I'd have walked out of dinner last night. Which cuisine was it?

thoselegends.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/legends-of-mandela-2-rugby-legend.html

One of the most famous British urban legends about the ways of royalty tells of Paul Kruger's first visit to England in 1877, after Britain had annexed the ZAR, to plead for Boer independence.

Legend has it that "Oom Paul" was a crusty old man who had evolved from cowherd to cattle farmer to president without losing the rough manners of his farming life. So, when he was invited to a banquet in his honour at Buckingham Palace, no one dared lecture him in advance about the etiquette of eating with royalty.

He sat down at Queen Victoria's banquet, waited for grace to be said, and then, as daintily as he could, pulled his soup bowl nearer and commenced with the first course.

The other guests were aghast. For the bearded old man was not eating soup, but drinking the scented hot water in his finger bowl. As they stared in horror, Queen Victoria revealed her presence of mind. She quickly pulled her own finger bowl closer, and also began spooning up the scented water.

She stared fiercely at anyone who still sat frozen, and within moments the entire table was enjoying the delights of their finger bowls.

What ill mannered pretentious snobs. Who cares how you hold your cutlery as long as you aren't causing offence. What on earth does it have to do with them? I'd be inclined not to let it rest and send an a short sharp email to them both. Point out that you'll decline further invitations to lunch and you won't be taking any lessons on table manners from somebody who runs their fingers around a plate and licks fingers. Your parents taught you manners unlike theirs. Send it. Am so sorry.

Ps toadgirl I love that story and am reading a book about queen vic at the mo.

Ps toadgirl I love that story and am reading a book about queen vic at the mo

Glad you enjoyed it :)

It's only people who are secure in themselves who can be so generous-spirited and kind. It's the social-climbing, snobbish Hyacinth Bucket types who are always playing games of oneupmanship.

A classy person wouldn't need to give themselves a boost by embarrassing someone else like that. Classy people can be found in all walks of life.

I've just googled 'how to hold a knife'.

First two offerings were a) 'how to hold a knife in a fight' and b) 'how to hold a knife in combat'.
Worth bearing in mind

Worlds

Brilliant

According to family folklore a great grandmother responded to a suggestion that she was wearing her hat back to front by replying: 'I take no account of the opinions of those for whom I have no regard.'

I am stealing that GoblinLittleOwl!

My grandfather likes to quote an old neighbour who used to jumble her words; she'd shrug at a particularly remark and say 'Well, it's imperial to me'. He assumes she meant immaterial but admits he was never quite sure, and uncertainty generally meant people swiftly changed the subject after that worth a try perhaps?

I'm a stickler for holding cutlery correctly and it drives me crazy that DP doesn't hold his properly. Having said that, while I always notice if someone isn't holding theirs correctly, I would NEVER mention it. That is just unbelievably rude and I'm not surprised you're so upset. The only person I would pull up on it is DP and even then never in public.

((hugs)) op

It matters not

Hope you've gone into work and held your head high

I'm from a council estate and use a fork like a shovel and hold the utensils the wrong way round.

I'm not from a council estate and use a fork like a shovel :)

My husband chases peas around the plate to push onto the back of the fork and takes the mick out of my lack of "etiquette". I eat in the way that is comfortable for me. As long as you don't eat with your mouth open and throw food, it really does't matter. And commenting on it (when it's not your wife who will give as good as she gets) is very very rude.

I had table manners impressed upon me as both parents went to boarding school and had it drilled into them. If it's any consolation boarding school was hideous.
I was therefore kind of brought up to see certain table habits as wrong (my granny would prod me in the back to make me sit up straight etc) and they do stand out to me but it is extremely distasteful to point it out to anyone. I would like to add that my mum doesn't seem able to speak without putting food in her mouth beforehand so she always has a mouthful when speaking and my dad has been known to pick up and lick a plate. Neither of them would be so rude as to try and make someone feel small though, that is the height of bad etiquette.

Saying that, we always listen to those who criticise us over those who are reassuring. Listen to everyone on this thread who is telling you that they were the rude ones, not you. Don't listen to idiots and don't let the bastards drag you down. Pick yourself up, tell yourself you are worth more than they are and arm yourself with some good retorts.

Bullying plain and simple. Please don't let them keep you away from your job.

I am laughing at the PP who said they have to look away when they see people using their cutlery in the "wrong" manner

Really? REALLY?

Surely only an insecure commoner would feel like this?

The thing to remember here OP is that the proper etiquette can always we learned, however having inherent good manners, which involves putting people at ease, being kind and thoughtful etc is to my mind more of a personality trait and therefore far more important.

My Grandmother (a very elegant and charming woman - also quite fiery) was a stickler for proper etiquette (dinner would often involve a mass of cutlery including items such as fish knives that we hardly ever see any more, even in posh restaurants) BUT nothing and I mean nothing got her cross as much as bad manners.

She called these sort of people "candle snuffers" i.e. people who blow out your candle to make theirs appear to burn brighter.

That really what's happened here. Your colleagues used the way you hold a knife to make themselves feel superior. In doing so, they only revealed their own insecurity and appalling lack of empathy, judgement and manners.

For my part I would much rather enjoy the company of people who slurped soup from a bowl, held their fork in the wrong hand etc etc who were kind, well mannered and fun company than a table full of people who knew all there was to know about fish knifes, forks with 3 or 4 tines etc and their correct usage who were mean, spiteful and bullying.