Burkinis

[TaterTots]

We've all seen the fuss about them, but last night I saw my first one in 'real life', which got me thinking. Also today two of my friends were arguing about them on FB - one against any ban, the other claiming they are a symbol of oppression.

My view has pretty much always been that it's just a different type of swimsuit; no different to some women wearing bikinis and others wearing one-pieces. I'd always thought the bans in places like Cannes were all about the culture/assimilation issue; it hadn't really crossed my mind that the 'modesty' might be being forced on women.

What do you think?

LordRothermere What you said was Personally, I feel oppressed by the fact that, as a Western womam, I am expected to reveal most of my body in a bikini, remove all body hair and be "beach body ready"Which serms a lite odd given the huge variation in types and styles of costume , body shapes and sizes and hairy and hairless bodies on display at beaches and swimming pools.

If you look at Style and Beauty on here, when posters come on asking for advice on summer beachwear and voicing reservations about their size, they are usually told that virtually no one wears a one-piece (never mind a swimdress) on the beach or around the pool. There is no doubt that there is a cultural norm of swimwear that looks like underwear. And that is becoming increasingly sexualised. As for hairy female bodies, I have yet to see one in all my years of attending British swimming pools. I appreciate that one can make the choice not to conform to either of these norms, but then the Muslim women on this thread have clearly told us that they also make a choice with regard to their swimwear. But I see that the burkini opposers have yet to acknowledge any of the views and preferences of those women. Because, you know, the poor downtrodden, culturally-inferior things can't possibly have a thought of their own.

Covering up body parts doesn't make them invisible, if anything it makes them stand out more in an environment where most people are uncovered.

I would feel more self conscious in a burkini than in bikinis, and I'm not a natural bikini wearer.

Besides, isn't it hot in there?
Anyway, whatever floats your boat.

to compare a woman wearing a burkini to one who has suffered FGM is totally disgusting and an insult to those women and girls that have been subjected to this barbaric procedure

superstaary - I wasn't equating them. I was simply making the point that accepting cultural differences is not necessarily a good thing: some things cross the line. The burqa is part of a toxic cultural iceberg; FGM is perhaps the tip of it.

Forcing a woman OUT of a burkini (or any other item of clothing) is just as bad as forcing her INTO it.

End of story. It's not the governments or the laws business what women wear.

How do we know that person is not forced into it or out of it.

For me this discussion is as relevant as a young woman who post puberty shaves her legs, pubis, underarms. It's her choice of course.

Nothing whatsoever to do with external forces.

Can you imagine a law that said all women must present as hairless on a beach? Obviously you must have luscious hair on your head and eyebrows.

A good friend of mine wears a burkini. She is late 50s, overweight and very body conscious. Her sister bought it for her about 5 years ago. She hadn't been swimming in decades, now she pool swims twice a week and swims in the sea every opportunity she gets. It has made a huge difference to her life, health and happiness wise. She is a single, white atheist.

Her body, her swimsuit, her choice. How dare any man tell her or any other woman to show more flesh when they're at the beach/pool.

"1. Should people be free to wear whatever they like?

1. What attitude should our Society adopt towards a culture that we consider oppressive and pernicious?"

Very good questions.

we place a lot of limits on our freedoms as the price for being a member of society. That's the deal we all sign up to... If you really cannot tolerate the deal, you're free to move to a society that suits you better"

Indeed. I hear Sudan is lovely this time of year.

Contrary to the UK's multiculturalism, France has only one way of life - the French way (or the highway).

Surely this comes as no surprise after the burqa ban that is still in effect.

Dione, why does she feel the need to wear a burkini to gain the freedom to do the things she wants to?

Dione, on the other hand she is overweight and body conscious. That says a lot about our society that we can't accept people as they are. On a beach, who the feck cares about what clothes you wear?

Or whether your body is beach ready?

Because she doesn't feel comfortable having her body on show Elendon.

Lass
It's just as ridiculous to say it's compulsory for all Muslim women to wearing a burkini and they all fall for it. Evidently they do not.

How do we know that person is not forced into it or out of it.

How many women have said that they were forced to wear a burkini? How many women have said that they choose to wear a burkini? I can't think of a single woman who has said the former, and plenty (including on this thread) who have said the latter. Why the fuck do people - including so-called feminists - persist in denying any credibility to what Muslim women say they want? What utter arrogance. Why the hell can't we have a choice in what we do with our bodies without one patriarchal culture or another deciding that we must either be covered or exposed? And why do we get to decide that our choice is better than other women's? Why is what men wear never at stake in our societies?

That looks quite wearable . I don't understand how the hair can be free though I thought Muslim women covered their hair because to not do so was immodest.

What does concern me is that not much skin on show there to get your daily dose of vitamin d

Isn't rickets on the rise?

I'm a suspicious old trout, but this looks like the kind of political smokescreen which is perfect for whipping up some hatred and division while at the same time distracting the public so they don't notice a sneaky bit of something nasty going on while they are busy clutching their pearls elsewhere.

Surely nobody actually cares this much about what some women wear on the beach?

Perhaps THESE would suit some burquini wearers

I really don't give a fig what women choose to wear to the beach what I don't like to see are covered up faces.

Shoot me know...but it's much easier to chat to an uncovered Muslim women if you can see facial expressions.

Probably because most people I chat to on a phone are friends, family or are there for a specific purpose to sell gas, electric, mobile phone upgrades etc

You don't speak on a mobile phone to a random woman and try to have a friendly conversation.

Bit like comparing apples and pears I think.

Nice to get to know people beyond the level of a phone convo though, IYSWIM!

I bet a few bikini wearers would love a pole dancing pole at the beach

Isn't rickets on the rise?

Not because of burkinis it isn't!

Isn't rickets on the rise?

Not because of burkinis it isn't!