Or is DP over 'mates rates' for decorating?

[GillBear]

Moving into a house that needs a fair bit of work in a weeks time and also expecting a baby in 2 weeks.

I would normally do the decorating myself but think I'll be out of action for a while!

DP's brother is a painter & decorator. He lives up north and work is pretty thin on the ground so he struggles.

We live in the south west and have had him and his assistant down to help us paint in the past. He stays with us (we feed him) and charges £130 a day not including materials for himself, then that again for his assistant.

He's said he can come down and help with the new house but he wants more money as the week would include a Sunday and bank holiday, so £300 a day for the two of them not including materials. We'd also pay for their diesel.

DP says it's fair enough, even though they only charge £80 a day each up North. He says his brothers doing us a favour, but I think it works both ways as we're giving him work he desperately needs. DP says this is a horrible attitude and I'm taking advantage of his brother by not paying what he asks for.

Am I being a hormonal cowbag?

Another angle: A relative of mine would quote for a job, and if he thought it would be difficult/extra work he would price it higher so he wouldn't get the job.

Your DP's brother might not want to do the job and has priced higher to put you off from accepting his quote. Just a thought.

Trappednerve - exactly that's what my DH does for mates rates and we get it back when we need jobs doing by his tradesman mates.

Great you are getting local quotes - if bil isn't actually helping you out by doing the work cheaper than someone local, just stop involving family.

Also would suggest you speak to a solicitor re your situation with your dp and what claim he would have if you split up.

Still not speaking to DP

In not speaking to him you are being unreasonable. It's your house; it's your call. Either accept the quote the BIL gave you or politely decline and find someone else. Personally I'd decline because I think you could get it cheaper but that's your call.

Expecting your DP to barter his DB down is being unreasonable both because it's your house, not his and because your BIL is under no obligation to spend his free time travelling half way across the country to decorate at "mates rates". For whatever reason he has decided the job is only worth it to him if he charges a high amount. That's his call.

Yes, I'd also like to know the daily rate that your Dp charges you. To work on the home he lives in . And his baby will soon live in .

You do understand, don't you, that the main reason people do up their homes is for the benefit of living there ? So you Dp gets the benefit of living in a nicer / better decorated / more functional house for nothing .

The fact that you might get more money for it when it's sold is a secondary benefit for most people .

You are making serious financial errors in your relathioships with your parther which could put you and your baby at risk . He sounds like quite a sharp operator.

You haven't answer any questions about the legal situation, what happens when you are on maternity leave, is he paying for half of childcare, are you still working FT etc

Please get legal advice .

Otherwise you are going to be back on here in a few years asking us how you can keep your house as your STBX is taking legal action for half of it .

And how you can't afford to pay the mortage alone anyway as you only work PT and have huge childcare bills.

and how he won't pay child support because all his work is cash in hand .

This is ridiculous.

The DP's brother thing aside, the DP has done nothing wrong.

He lives in a house, pays towards the mortgage and costs but has no financial claim to it. He's supposed to take time off work to improve the house knowing that in the future, he'll receive none of the value of the improvements?

The DP is a TENANT. the OP is his LANDLORD. She can kick him out at any time. Do renters typically pay for improvements to property or do landlords? But because he's a man, he should pay for everything?

Typical mumsnet anti men bias.

A11 - he pays towards the bills not the mortgage
No one said he took time off work
He benefits every day from living in a nicer house
We don't know if there is any tenancy agreement
They are partners - I assume he gets sex and other domestic services
She is having his baby
She and the baby have no legal security
No one said he should pay for everything because he's a man

Are you sure you haven't posted on the wrong thread ?

A11 - he absolutely could have a financial claim to it if he's making improvements which there is no paper trail for and there's no formal tenancy agreement.

I'd say the same if the sexes were reversed.

OP - your DP is ripping you off. Get legal advice. And forget the decorating

The other point is that your baby could literally arrive any day. You probably won't want a couple of adult male lodgers in your house during your first days at home with a newborn. Much better to get someone local who will at least go home at the end of the day instead of filling up your sofa & expecting to be made their tea!

The guy across the road from us let his brother do some (similar) work for him. Put him up, fed him, etc. The brother had wanted 100 a day on top; worked from about 11 until 3 - in short bursts with many breaks, the excuse being he was only being paid 50 a day.

We have very skilled craftsmen, builders, decorators round her who charge for the job not the hours or days. Any of them would have done it better and quicker and cheaper.

Get 3 quotes from locals.

I KNEW there would be 'LTB' bullshit.

Anything beyond the controversial norm of marriage and equal mortgage and mumsnet naysayers are all over it like a fucking rash.

OP I was in a controversial family set up (controversial to Mumsnet anyway!) and now over the years my circumstances have changed, we're getting married and now live the 'normal' family life by Mumsnet measures.

It just goes to show that when MN ripped me apart years ago because we did something slightly different, they were wrong.

Sounds like you're doing alright and wrt to the brother, I'd get local quotes too.

Contraversial norm?! Talk about oxymoron!

That's a mistake obviously, I was distracted by two donkeys suddenly trotting past me and one making a bid for freedom.

It isn't anti men - it's anti partner who's living in the house with OP and soon to arrive baby - asking OP for money for house improvements - to be paid a salary for said work - with possibly no quote or invoice

Wonder if OP charges for her services? Washing ironing sex cooking etc - it's the same principal!!!

DP time is worth X then so is OPs

So you were being treated like a total mug Send but now you're getting married to the guy? Wow, you lucky woman

The opposite happens with my brother. Because there's not much work about, when he does get it he tends to go in cheap in order to get the work. He recently did our living room for £140, he never has an assistant. The work took him two days. But he knows that my dh will return the favour (as an electrician who is struggling) f he ever wants work doing. Tbh he wouldn't get much work if he was having to charge for an assistant too.

We're 'up north' and good decorators are in very high demand round here. Normally charge min. £150 per man per day excluding materials. Think your BIL is taking the Micky ( or his lack of work means he's not that great)

I don't think there is much LTB here, more don't get ripped off for a paint job and watch your back OP because why are you being ripped off for a paint job - must be more to it etc.

The misuse of the phrase "mate's rates" has set the tone to read between the lines. This is why mn is useful, how many of us wish we had been warned about a dodgy situation that now seems obvious but at the time just didn't seem quite right...

There is no harm and every sense in getting a strong knowledge of financial and legal positioning of relationships once children become involved. This sort of thing should be taught in school before adulthood and not looked upon as negative or suspicious behaviour.

You shouldn't take out a mobile phone contract or lease a car without reading the small print and educating yourself on all possible outcomes, why is parenthood any different?

It just goes to show that when MN ripped me apart years ago because we did something slightly different, they were wrong.

No, because many many times that advice has proven to be correct - check out maybe half the threads on Relationships. It is very good general advice.

I currently have three friends divorcing abusive husbands (there's a lot of it about). In every case she works no more than pt to be available for the DC, in every case the house is not jointly owned, and in 2/3 the husband is self-employed. It's only the structure of divorce law that will force these abusive men to declare their assets and income, and acknowledge the non-financial contributions of these women over years of marriage. They all believed their husbands would treat them fairly; the blinkers are well and truly off now.

I'm glad you have been lucky enough to find someone who stuck to his promises and didn't take advantage of your trust. Congratulations on finding the "zebra"!

Lawyer wig on. If your DP is working on the house and thereby enhancing its value, married or not, he'll get what's called an equitable interest in its value. If you split he'll have good grounds for a share of its value. Unless the paperwork is very very clear you're going to lose out. I can see a situation where even though you've got receipts for the work he's done he'll make a claim and you'll end up buying him off. Your best bet ( and I use that word 'bet' for a reason) would be to get him to sign a legally binding document saying he has no claim on the property and keep that document very very safe. You can't do it on the sly, you'll need a lawyer.
Did he sign a document for your mortgagors saying that he waived all occupancy rights in their favour? Do they know he's living there? They should otherwise you're looking at a potential breach of their lending conditions. If he needs to sign for them get him to do it for you st he same time. If he won't then you know he doesn't trust you and is hedging his bets. If you can't have that conversation.....

Kr1stina

Er, the Op said he paid towards the bills and mortgage!

The OP said he took off a month unpaid!

Also, you think you act like a feminist but uphold rape culture in your desire for handouts. Cos SEX ISNT SOMETHING WOMEN GIVE TO MEN.

I'll say that again:

SEX ISNT SOMETHING WOMEN GIVE TO MEN

sex isn't something that men pay for with rent and salaries and paying towards the mortgage. Saying that he gets sex every month as one of her "services" is vile and rape culture.

But typical of mumsnet where people encourage women to give children their own surname but still insist that you're a victim because "you had HIS children"'. Or people want equal parenting but insist that "mums know best".

So - he gets paid as a builder - probably 'mates rates' i.e. Double the going rate - and gets to live there and then pockets the profits upon a slip?

It's either /or - at the moment he gets both

If it's your house and your money paying for decorators then you have every right to your opinion. I would do as pp have said. Get two local quotes and go from there.

Your partner is charging you to work on a house he and his future child live in? ~jaw drops~

Is BIL any good at decorating? My DH is a decorator, works with his cousin. We're up north and the rate BIL is quoting you is about the rate they charge. And they are always booked up months ahead and have several jobs on the go.
If BIL is charging £80 a day and work is thin on the ground, I'd be wary of the quality of his work.
Something doesn't add up.

Ok, I feel I'd like to clarify a few things.

DP pays towards all bills including mortgage. It's slightly complicated as I have DC from previous marriage. We keep our finances separate.

I had two options with DP in our current house. I bought it a year ago, with my deposit and my mortgage. It needed a lot of work and I planned to sell it once it was finished as it was a bit too small for a family long term.

I knew/hoped I would likely make a profit. DP offered to do the work for free (he'd have to take a chunk of unpaid time off work and lose a fair amount of income) for a (small) percent of the profit, if I made money he did, if I made nothing nor did he.

He suggested if I wasn't happy with that I could just pay him for the work, but he was worried that if I made nothing on the house I would potentially lose out as I would have paid him and got nothing in return.

Obviously boys around the house he does for free, but not fitting a kitchen, knocking down a wall etc. If he was on the mortgage (he will be in the future) then he would do it for free, but have a claim in the house.

I really don't think it's fair to expect him to lose a massive chunk of his own income in order to help me make a profit which he doesn't benefit from at all.