To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

[AllieinWonderland]

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

OP, the priority here should be finding ways your daughter can accept herself as a person who has mental health problems, accepting that they do impact her life and finding help and environments that are positive for that person and not for the person she'd rather she was.

I also think it is a bad idea to choose a uni based on proximity to one of your various family members. She needs space to breathe.

The lower entrance requirement universities mentioned have pretty much nothing in common. Bradford is a city based university and is one of the most diverse in terms of student intake in the whole country. It is very quiet in terms of student life because of the proximity to Leeds. Aberystwyth is in a town, is one of the few universities where men outnumber women, and is one of the least diverse student intakes in the country. It has a vibrant student social life because it is not near anywhere else. The universities you have chosen tend to have high private school intakes which means many of the students are less intellectually engaged because they're used to being in intellectual environments so it's same old same old to many of them.

Your DD needs to think about what kind of university environment she wants, and then choose universities with similar environments to each other but different grade requirements. Whether a university asks for BBB or AAA says very little about what it is like. Someone applying to Newcastle, Sheffield, Manchester Met and Northumbria makes sense - different entry requirements but similar environments. Aberystwyth, Leeds Beckett and Bradford - makes no sense at all.

I don't think that refusing to let panic attacks influence her life is a valid method of improving her long term mental health. She is ill and suffering. Ignoring it, is just storing up problems for the future.

Life isn't fair. She should just be able to float into uni aged 18 the same as everyone else, but that could easily be a path to destruction and ignoring that is not the best strategy at all.

I see so many students limping through their degrees with long term mental illness and I wish I could tell them all to just take the time to get well instead of slogging through.

I don't think anyone, much less 16/17 yo should make big decisions when ill.

I also think that extra curricular activities can reduce the pressure on academic studies rather than increasing it.

The students I worry about the most are the ones that tell me they don't have anything except their studies.

I'm firmly in the gap year camp.
Apologies if someone has already said this and I've missed it (have read thread but noisy dcs distracting me) but how about she learns a language or two during her gap year? That way she'll have some academic skills to show for it and can continue studying if that's what calms her, but without the pressure of having to pass exams.

You have to let them make their own choice. My daughter was suggested Cambridge by her school and refused, did well at Bristol earns well over £100 in her 20s as a lawyer etc etc Oxbridge is not the be all and end all. She had a lovely 3 years at Bristol with 3 hours of lectures a week and acres of time to do all kinds of things when there. She ven too her horse down at one point and was driving out to muck out at 6am. Everyone has different needs from university. I adored Manchester and gradutaed with law prizes and had a lovely time - my lovely time was singing in chamber choirs and adoring studying law. Others remember hours drunk. They have to find their own way.
My youngest two will not be applying for Oxbridge ( GCSEs probably not quite good enough although almost all A or A* and they do not want to).

Obviously as described this girl probably could have a fair shot at Cambridge but she can't be forced to apply.

I have the opposite problem mine with one B at GCSE (French) certainly does not blame himself - it's the Board or the teacher or whatever, never the boy.....laughing as I type.

Is the one who got a B the postman though?

I was working at the University when they first set the Department of Peace Studies up. I think she would find out that there are a significant number of overseas students and mature students on the course. I might be wrong, but I would imagine that a keen interest in what the course offers more than A level grades would be what impressed them.

Hi,

I am firmly in the gap year camp with you all, just to clear that up. It's just not the camp she seems to be in!

We tried CAMHs but they seemed determined to label which was something she didn't want... They also obsessed over her eating habits and seemed highly focused on the possibility of an eating disorder, when actually she eats perfectly normal amounts. (They became obsessed when she mentioned she occasionally forgets to eat three meals a day - but she snacks on crackers and carrots and hummus a lot which is why she forgets - it fills her up so she isn't hungry until the evening!)
She has tried CBT and a school counsellor (who kept calling her Ellie - her name begins with a T, ends in an n...) and had one session with a "RELATE" counsellor, but the counsellor forced her to tears so she never went back. I drove her there for a second meeting and she refused to get out of the car.
Her mental health probably does need tackling, I admit. But I don't think I'm the right one to do it, and DH tried but also isn't the right one. She enjoys art therapy but it doesn't seem to change much in her mental state. To be honest I don't really know how to deal with it, so I think it's easier to avoid, which probably isn't the best policy. I will mention it to my sister and see if she can be of any help - she has bipolar and auditory schizophrenia, and something that makes her rip her hair out under stress.

I am very proud of all she has achieved, and am equally proud of her sister, who is averaging Bs in all her lessons and does nothing out of school (other than sit on her phone), and her brother, who gets a mixed bag from A*-Fs and does a lot of sport because I know they all try as hard as teenagers can be expected to and are matching their potential. Just because she has 16 GCSEs of high grades it does not mean I a grades obsessed mum.

Of COURSE you're not the right person to tackle her MH - that would just end with her being even more codependent on you...

Others have posted suggestions of specialists in PTSD. Please look at these further. I really feel her very existence depends on this...

you're her parent and you have to do what she NEEDS, not what she wants.

Her mental health problems need to be accepted, then worked upon.

Mental health problems are not like breaking a leg and then getting it fixed.

They can take years and years of work, both individually and through trying lots of different forms of support until you find one that is helpful.

They're not something you just get a professional to deal with.

OP, I hope things get better for your DD, but there's something just a bit off about how you're talking about your daughter, and I don't want to read things into it.

The priority should be your daughter, the human being in distress, not your daughter the university applicant,

Yes therapy will make her cry, I have left many therapy sessions feeling absolutely terrible, worthless, and helpless the thing is you have to feel terrible before you can make progress. She needs to face her trauma face on, process it, recognise that it's in her past, that the past can't hurt her anymore.

I'm sorry to be blunt but until she has dealt with the past and learnt to move on she is just a ticking time bomb. You cannot help her, she needs a professional.

I would hate for her to have a complete breakdown like I did, I really wish someone saw through my facade and said no your not ok and you need help.

I don't even know where to start looking for PTSD specialists. Oh well. I guess I have to start somewhere.

Last time I asked to talk about panic attacks she screamed at me and threatened to jump out of the car, so I haven't raised it since. Bit nervous now.

2016Blyton

I trust your easily google'able daughter doesn't mind you posting how much she earns. I know that you love to regularly remind everyone of your success but I think you should be a bit careful of over sharing info about your kids.

she needs specialist PTSD therapy to address the panic attacks - speak to the maudesley link above try and get a referral or see if they have local outposts nearer to you.

of course you cant treat her MH. neither can your sister - and her therapists will be in the adult section. at 16 she should still come under child and adolescent . .

Not the relate counsellor she saw veryproudvolleyballmum! It was someone the GP recommended, so she went, and it was unpleasant, so she never went back.

And I probably am - I just don't really see how talking to unfamiliar people will help her, and this is because she's told me she doesn't find it helpful.

I have never attended counselling or therapy, apart from art therapy at the demand of my sister. Don't find it helpful. Don't think there's much to help.

I suppose with her there's a lot more that needs sorting, it's just hard to know where to go about starting.

here is a link again
www.slam.nhs.uk/our-services/service-finder-details?CODE=SU0265

call them - ask gp to refer. they will also help you tto learn strategies how to deal with the panic attacks from your side

This is a specialist service, available to people from across the UK.
GPs, consultants, health professionals, referrers, commissioners and members of the public can find comprehensive information about this national service here:
www.national.slam.nhs.uk/camhs-traumaticstress

Overview
Our service is for children and adolescents with difficulties arising from exposure to traumatic and severely stressful events. We offer highly specialist diagnostic assessments to identify any post-traumatic stress responses, including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), complicated bereavement reactions, and other anxiety and depressive conditions.

Where post-traumatic symptoms are present and require treatment, we offer consultation on treatment, trauma- focused cognitive behavioural therapy, eye movement desensitisation and reprocessing therapy.

We lead in research on ways of improving and disseminating evidence-based treatments for traumatised young people and their families. People seen in our clinic are often invited to participate in ongoing research projects.

We also provide training in the assessment and treatment of post-traumatic responses in young people and families.

For more information about SLaM's national and specialist services see:

www.national.slam.nhs.uk

Thank you cestlavielife.

Think it's time to call an ultimate frisbee match to get my head around all of this. I'll probably (hopefully) thank you all later.

my friend's dd was v successfully treated for panic attacks /flashbacks / ptsd (following an accident) at maudesley. it took a long while (months) but worked where local camhs didnt because they are the specialist in trauma anxiety etc. they will have seen it all before and know what to do where relate/art therapist may not...

i think you have lived with her panic attacks for so long it has become the normal for you and for your dd.

so she panics and you live it then shrug and move on -

oh there she goes again she will be all right in five minutes./two hours or whatever...

instead of addressing it head on. understandable - but this life stage throws it into perspective. the danger is if you dont fully address it it wont be ok when she is at uni and has a panic attack... or she gets worse in her mh.

now is good time to really take time out maybe after a levels and address it.

Or you could just chuck a Frisbee about in a wholly non competitive manner and see how that feels?

now while she is still young enough for you to have some level of influence over her treatment... and to be able to push her a little

This thread. Blimey. That's all.

I will mention it to my sister and see if she can be of any help - she has bipolar and auditory schizophrenia, and something that makes her rip her hair out under stress.

Bipolar and schizophrenia both run in families. In women, they make themselves known in the early twenties.

It is therefore probably even more imperative that your daughter gets help from a psychiatrist so that things don't progress to a major mental health disorder.

Eating disorders are also very common in high-achieving perfectionists, which is probably why it was focused on.

A label can often open doors to treatment. I can see why she wouldn't want to be labelled, as it fits into her narrative of not wanting to be "weak", but brushing the problem under the carpet won't make it go away.

You're the adult here and can't just cater to the things she wants all the time. Sometimes you have to disagree if it's in her best interests, and a diagnosis is in her best interests so that her issues can be treated.

I'm not surprised she's shit scared about her own mental health considering that she must be aware of the issues on both side of her family........

Why not have a look at Young Minds charity that helps young people with PSTD as well as other MH issues.