To push DD to apply to Cambridge?

[AllieinWonderland]

So I'm relatively new to posting on mumsnet, but have been a long time lurker, so if I mix up the lingo a bit then apologies!
DSS1 got 9As 3As at GCSE, 4 high As at AS level, and is on track to exceed his AAA offer for Oxford.
Oldest DD achieved 13A*s 2As and a B at GCSE (the B in music - she had a panic attack in the exam and it was on a tape so she was unable to get the time back) and is looking on track for 5 high As at AS level in French, English lit, history, physics, and art. She is seemingly good at almost everything (triathlons at county level and has previously played and trained younger children in cricket and basketball, plays the cello, the xylophone, and the clarinet, won a local photography competition, always gets lead roles in an amateur dramatics group and solos in choir) yet has always struggled severely with self esteem, and focuses on the things she is bad at: sees her B in music as the end of her chance of going to good universities, can't bake or cook to save her life despite much encouragement and teaching, is awful at tidying (she is happy to do it but ends up gradually making more of a mess and gets flustered. Again, I've tried forms of 'teaching' and noting has worked). These latter two issues have led her to thinking she needs to stay at home for university and she is driving me mad by saying she'll go to the local university, which is really not a very good one at all, and the only others she'll consider are those with offers of "BBC" or below.
She has finally settled on studying English literature, and I took charge and booked her on open days at Warwick, Edinburgh, Cambridge, and Durham, and her school took the 'Oxbridge' candidates to Oxford for a trip. She hated Durham, didn't like Edinburgh, thought Oxford and Warwick were okay, but loved Cambridge.
In spite of this she is refusing to consider applying, says it's a waste of an application.
I don't want to push her, but I do want her to apply because she clearly loved it and is more than capable. All of her teachers have been saying it since before I can remember, and she reads almost constantly.
Aibu to try and change her mind?
Sorry for the lack of coherence here, my mind a bit of a mess!

I understand how she feels, I ended up at my local uni to relieve academic pressure and comparison to my older very academic brother.
Has she looked at Exeter? Highly thought of for English, great city but quite small too.

I'd agree with UEA too, fantastic degree there.
Have a look at this too:
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/11615869/Top-10-universities-to-study-English.html?image=1

The best thing my mum did was leave me to it, it's meant we've got a strong relationship now too.

Changing tack a bit: if she is so bright and driven, why choose English Lit (very "mainstream")? She clearly has a passion for languages and other cultures judging by your posts. She could study a language ab initio or combine honours with two languages, and added bonus that depending on course/uni she will study lots of literature too. Cambridge, Bristol, UEA, London unis.... Lots of varied good places for languages.

I think OP you're getting a bit of a hard time here.

It probably would be a bit of a waste of money and time going to a Ibi that isn't highly regarded, when the DD can clearly aim higher.

OP I would encourage her to take a gap year. She can go abroad, work in a shop or something, make some new friends, have no pressure, build up her confidence - and hen hopefully will be in a clearer place to decide what she wants to do long term.

This is her choice, and if shes suffering with anxiety, I would get that sorted ASAP, because it can derail her life if not dealt with. it tends to get worse and worse.

If she is applying for university, then try to be happy with that, DONT nag, but make her aware of the doors it will open to go to Cambridge university. Cambridge university is known the world over, and that fact alone will open doors.....but at the end of the day, if shes going to university and she doesnt want to. that is still very positive.

She sounds like a very intelligent young woman, who will have ample opportunities whatever university she chooses.

*if she doesnt want to go to cambridge I meant, but is still going to university this is still very positive.

Haven't looked at the figures in a while but oxbridge probably still makes a lot of difference in terms of career and earning potential. I was someone who chickened out. Maybe a gap year. But also don't push too hard. Some people just don't very badly with the kind of hot housing at those unis. My sister never recovered from it.

IT sounds to me that she wants to stay close to her family and yet you seem to be pushing her towards only the elite universities no matter how far (St Andrews is madness - very isolated and would be hard to pop home). Why not just simply suggest the nearest couple of well respected universities and see if she can travel for a year until she finds her feet. So, if you are in the North Manchester or Leeds, For example (just assuming btw). I do think that if she is as academic as she sounds that you are not wrong to consider u's that are more traditionally academic but she also seems quite anxious by the sound of it and may be better staying at home for that reason. How elite a university is should be neither here nor there but I do think that some courses and u's will appeal to the more academic in terms of content and perhaps present a more appropriate challenge.

Make sure she wants to go to Uni. I was like her - sailed through school and various activities as a high achiever. Dug my heels in about Oxbridge as I didn't like either and refused to apply, despite parental pressure. Chose my degree based on my favourite subject and absolutely hated it. The pressure to carry on being 'brilliant' was far too much, I ended up on ADs and dropped out. The memory of the screaming conversations where my Mother despairingly asked me what I wanted to do as a job...I didn't know. TBH I find the concept of an 18 y/o being in a position to make that kind of decision to be faintly ridiculous! There are very few of my school peers using the degrees they earned in the fields that are relevant to them (a marine biologist is a retail store manager, a law graduate works in a theatre).

It hasn't stopped my career - I have had to work my way up without the benefit of being a graduate, which was hard and required 3-4 years of real focus and very long hours, but I got there. I probably will go back and finish my degree but for the love of learning - I'll be the oldest graduate there

So if she wants to go to Uni then great, but make sure that she actually wants to go.

Maybe stop focusing on the where and look a bit more deeply into course content. If peace studies is something that interests her for example she could do a combination degree with Eng Lit as an example. She excels at languages, would a degree with the option of a year abroad be attractive . Where you study isn't nearly as important as what you study. If you hate a university you can transfer to another, if you hate the subject it becomes trickier.

You're painting a picture of a really fragile girl OP. Really bright and academic, but in line with others in your family so, expected rather than stand out. She struggles when out of her comfort zone, she's unable to relax and 'be'. She, you, has had a hideous time and experienced things that no child should have to and it might take a lifetime to get over that. Her mental health is far, far more important than her potential future career. Seems to me that fearing failure is one factor, but not wanting to leave you, her family, her safe place is the driving force. She can do Uni at any time. Your focus needs to be on, an only on her well being as a person right now. She's really young and has lots of time to do all of this, she sounds hugely mixed up and at odds with herself and barely holding on. Her well being is THE most important thing, not her degree. Focussing there gives her far more likelihood of achieving her potential than anything else. Let her be. Let her fuck it all up if necessary and let her learn how to be. Be there for her as you have been her whole life. And possibly look at switching one of her therapies to coaching, life coaching with a supportive coach who will help her learn how to be using her own experiences at her own pace. You sound like a wonderfully supportive mum, perhaps just be aware that helping her to become her own person and to get over her past so she can be happy is more important than her education

Bless her, she sounds like she's putting herself under a lot of pressure. I completely see why you want her to apply for Cambridge as it's such an opportunity, but it sounds like it may be too stressful. If she wants to stay nearer home I would let her as she doesn't sound ready to go. If she feels she has made a bad decision later she may be able to transfer after her first year - it's very rare but I imagine a really good student would stand a fair chance! Alternatively I'd focus on smaller universities with a community feel - I know you wrote off Aberystwyth, but I know someone who went there and really enjoyed it because it was smaller and not too overwhelming. I also know a couple of people (one who now has a PhD) who loved Bradford. Good luck, I hope it all works out for the best :)

Hi everyone - she actually wants to be a primary school teacher eventually, but wants to do an English lit degree first. This has all been of her own choice, as she'd like to leave her options open in case she changes her mind.

Sadly I think the point that seems to be mixed is that I am this involved because she asks me to - I booked the open days because she came to me in tears saying all her friends had booked them and she had 'missed all the slots', which was in fact not the case. I didn't sit there and book them without her, I sat down with her and we went through to book them, booking on the universities she wanted. At this point, these were the universities she was interested in - she has just since come out with the notion she's not capable, though she was hinting it heavily before.

This too happens with universities - she comes and asks me for suggestions and places to look into, and my first round of suggestions was Nottingham, York, Sheffield, but following the recent freak out about not making the grades or getting the offer, the most recent time I was asked for suggestions I suggested Leicester, Leeds (which is AAA but could be done from home), Manchester met and a few others that I can't remember. None, other than Leeds, of which were Russell Group. I am also supportive of the Aberystwyth suggestion, and believe it would be good for her to have insurance safety blanket.

She's already written her personal statement and submitted it to her form tutor, and it is very (entirely) English literature focused.

I am not trying to force her to do anything she doesn't want to do, I just want her to have the belief that she can do the things she wants to do. If I believed that was Peace Studies at Bradford then that would be fine, but the fact she's already written and English literature statement, often wants to talk about books, is reading more than is probably healthy, makes me see no reason for her to not apply somewhere for English lit.

She sounds like she is a wonderful academic but needs some serious life skills which are just as important career wise. It is her choice .... I chose a university and then ended up coming home after 8 weeks because I lacked confidence.
I went to my home university, had an amazing time, gained confidence and met my wonderful DH!!!

Absolutely push her to apply. My DM forced me to apply for Oxford (despite my belief that I'd never get in). I did, and I'm so grateful to them for believing in me.

Have you read the thread twistnshout? Panic attacks and anxiety problems and she should be pushed to apply?

She has a cousin who had severe panic attacks (one so badly paramedics had to take her out of the Bodlean Library!) and went to Oxford, and has found it far more supportive than a relative who had family issues while at Durham. I think she assumes Cambridge will be similar, hence where the interest has come from.

I didn't go to one of the above universities but work in an industry where most of my colleagues did. The fact is that Cambridge will open up doors for her and she will find her own group of friends that just aren't in the ultra confident / top public school crowd. If she needs a nudge I would give it to her - I don't think it's healthy to feel you can't survive far from home and I don't see how she will get the confidence without taking the leap. That said, it's her decision so in reality there is very little you can do.

If she wants to be a primary school teacher could she take a year out first? During that time, perhaps she could visit/volunteer at some schools. There are career options for later such as Headships or (shudders) OFSTED that she might want to investigate. Talking to the keen and the jaded in a few staff rooms could be invaluable.

Not read all the thread but some of those other Uni's are excellent. St. Andrews is right up there with the 'big names' but has a small staff/student ratio. In a lovely location. Exeter a lovely uni. But Cambridge is the #1 in the Uk and top ten (?) in the world. A degree from Cambridge opens doors for people sad to say. Beautiful uni but only if you like that pressure. She could/should have a go at a Cambridge entry just to see if she gets a shot but if she chose St.Andrews then in some respects that would be a better choice.

Honestly, a good degree is a good degree and it won't matter which uni it comes from.

What sort of places does she like being? seaside, - Aberystwyth (I loved my time there, it's small enough you don't feel lost, big enough you don't feel trapped. usuallly rates highly oin student happiness)

very quiet countryside - lampeter (very small place, would need to get there and back by car mostly)

cities - bristol is nice etc

you're looking at her spending 3 or more years there so it has to be somewhere she won't hate being

This makes for uncomfortable reading, tbh. The poor girl clearly feels under almost intolerable pressure. She sounds a lot like a schoolfriend of mine. High achiever throughout school, completely burnt out by second year at Uni, never finished her degree.

But Cambridge is the #1 in the Uk and top ten (?) in the world.

I have huge vested interests here, but for English Lit, there are lots of places scoring very well and it is not this simple.

OP - but, the issue is, what is she going to do if she goes to Cambridge (or Nottingham, or York, or Leicester)?

If she's coming to you wanting you to 'take charge' with booking visits and ordering prospectuses, and she's then feeling too nervous/stressed to apply, how is she going to cope with the (substantial) organisational demands of a university course?

I know that's a nasty question to think about and I accept that clearly, she has had a very rough time and it would be difficult to know what to do for the best, but I can't help feeling that the combination of pushing her and doing a lot on her behalf is not really setting her up to feel confident?

Every gap year discussion has been rejected solidly be her - she just doesn't want to, so I'm not going to force the idea. I merely want to build on what she wants. She may change her mind nearer the time and could always defer late I do believe.

I have a child currently struggling with mental health issues at University. Please don't push her.