To be angry that MIL may have indoctrinated my child?

[FruitCider]

I've been away for just under a week volunteering abroad and got home this morning. My mother in law (reverend) has been to stay with my partner whilst I went away. I'm completely atheist, partner is agnostic. MIL tried to give me a nativity set at Christmas for DD and a book full of bible stories, I declined and said I didn't want my daughter exposed to religion by people with a bias to a particular religion until she was 7/8.

I've come home today and my 3.5yo DD is continuously talking about Jesus, how God made the planet and told me I should thank god that my journey was safe. My partner says MIL had not mentioned religion when he was at home but he had to leave DD with MIL on Tuesday and Thursday whilst he went to work.

I'm absolutely RAGING! AIBU to be this angry? I literally want to banish MIL from my house and tell her she is not allowed contact with my DD for the foreseeable future.

Also is my DD likely to forget about God as she grows up if it's not mentioned again? Or is she now indoctrinated forever?

Sorry to those who may find this post offensive, I just wanted my DD to make her own mind up when she was old enough to understand that religion is a belief and there is no firm evidence for a God. She could have decided herself to be a Christian and I would have accepted that.

I call troll

Why?

Penny its great your dc are exposed to all sorts of beliefs. I would hope that your dc one day ask your neighbour when she decided she believed, and felt so devout.

Because its not a choice many people are allowed is it. Your dc are lucky as are mine.
There also seems to be slight imbalance to Muslims or at least in seems on here in that the other religion is Islam.

We must be truly inclusive and also teach are dc about Scientology and what they believe, how devout they are too and that they think they are aliens. We must also teach Westborough church antics and all the other cults and religions so our dc respect those also.

Although my DS was a sheep in the nativity.

He was pretty secular in his playing of the role.

Nursery will absolutely be doing nativity stuff at Christmas.

They haven't for the last 2 christmas's. Why would they start now?

DDs non church school did a christmas carol concert last year

They sang songs about Santa, and sang songs about Jesus.

Christmas carols are more about culture and tradition than religion. Nobody complained, no athiests, no muslims, no hindus, no Christians complained about the santa songs..

You're creating "fights" for yourself that don't need to be faught in order to have an athiest family

How many secular schools are there in the uk? Google is giving me nothing.

Haffdonga Sat 13-Aug-16 21:55:07

Indeed and go back to Roman Gods, Greek Gods, their devotion and obsession with various gods, then cover philosophy, and the human need to think there is something bigger than us, the tribal elements, belonging to a pack, the power play, power in the pulpit.....

she wont be indoctrinated

again madness to think a nativity set or nativity play is going to lead to this...its a lovely Christmas story along with all the other lovely xmas stories and a tale of humility much needed among the pomp of xmas.

My dh is atheist. I am agnostic (the splinters in my arse are killing me ).
Like you, we agreed we would let our firstborn make their own mind up.
The problem with that approach is is that unless they are "born again" as an adult it is unlikely they will have any firm belief in religion as they will either copy the parent regardless or be brought up with no active counterpoint anyway. Therefore you really are worrying about nothing.
To try and be balanced I took my kid to a couple of church services. She was enrolled in catholic class at school as opposed to ethics. We did the "some people believe whilst others believe" approach. She is now a teen with an enquiring mind, does ethics at school and is an atheist, as to be honest, she was never truly brought up with any faith to either adhere to or reject.
My second is in an evangelic nursery but >along the lines of Play nice. They go to church sometimes and the female preacher tells them stories. She knows her Dad is an atheist and that her friends have different ideas about heaven (she thinks God will let her be a unicorn in heaven whereas her friend told her that was utter bollocks and when you're dead, you're dead, Jim). She's little but will no doubt be as sceptical as her sister and as rational as her father.
Them having no faith does not bother me remotely, self belief is >important, but I do wish almost they had had a counterpoint like your MIL to give them a basis to reject or take comfort from. The strong likelihood will be that your kids ask What do you believe Mum? What does Daddy think? and will base their beliefs on yours.

The problem is my MIL doesn't see it as belief. She says its factual. She says there is proof that the world is only 6000 years old and that everything was created by intelligent design. She is unable to give a balanced view as she does not see her faith as being a belief.

So what, that is what she believes
and if you don't want your children to know that some people do believe that as fact, you are not presenting a factual account of religion and atheism

Do you present your atheism as a belief or a fact?

Do you present your atheism as a belief or a fact?

I present it as a lack of belief. Not a belief.

I don't believe in God but I let my (now adult) DC listen to bible stories and we talked about the different beliefs people have. (I prefer the scientific explanation.) Always emphasising no-one really knows.
They said the Lord's Prayer in school and celebrated whatever religious festival was going on. As adults two of them are agnostic. They made an informed choice because they were told about the different beliefs.
DGC have been give same options.
Your attitude is as bad as any religious zealot.

Your DH was brought up by a Christian, and yet, when he was old enough to decide for himself, he appears to have rejected his mother's religion.

Don't you think your DD will be able to develop sufficient critical thinking skill, over time?

What does it matter if she believes this guff as a 3.5yo? When she's 15, she'll believe what she damn well believes, and there won't be a thing you, your DH or your MIL will be able to do about it.

I present my atheism as fact. Because it is.

But christians do believe in christianity. That in itself is a fact. A fact you want witheld from your child

my granny was a devout Catholic and when she looked after us She took us to church and blessed us and read us bible stories and told us her views as fact. - I am now a non religious, normal adult, and unscathed!!!
As for denying your DD her grannies nativity set, Santa and the tooth fairy Boooooo to you - un fun mum! I'm feeling for her
Will your daughter be removed from assembly and religious events at school I.e making Christmas/Easter cards listening to a visiting religious person tell a bible /Koran story ?

But as factual, or a belief in lack of belief?

You're right to make the distinction - but do you present it as: Some people, like mummy don't believe in any God. Other people believe in God/Allah/puff the magic dragon.

Or, do you present it as: There isn't a God, but some people believe in....

august teaching kids to respect scientology won't wash in Germany. It's deemed a cult here and kids are actively taught against it (DD had to produce an anti cult leaflet last year). We had a blast finding Simpsons, Futurama and Family guy pictures from cult episodes to decorate it with. Think they watched Going clear as well.
Now you might deem that hypocritical or disrespectful but bottom line is here it is not recognized as a church. (whereas she did learn about pillars of islam and critical thinking about world religions).

I can understand that you are frustrated by your MIL presenting her views as fact rather than one interpretation. However people are going to express views to your DD that you disagree with. Unless you are planning on home schooling her then from age 5 she will mix with classmates from different backgrounds who will tell her about their beliefs and might even take part in a nativity play! Just explain that different people believe different things. She is 3! She is not "indoctrinated forever"! 3 year olds believe in the tooth fairy and Father Christmas! Not comparing that to religion but just pointing out their views aren't set in stone and change as they get older. Don't make a big deal out of it and she'll move on.

How would you explain it to your DD if you banned her from seeing her grandmother? Don't you think that might be more damaging to her than a mention of religion? Especially if she twigs it's because of something she mentioned to you and blames herself.

You do come across as quite negative about religion rather than simply wanting your DD to make up her own mind.

troll - or is it common to go off on a week's volunteering abroad without your child assuming SIL will step up and then being out-raged that MIL does? anyone else? able to leave their 3.5 year old home and go abroad to volunteer?

I went to France for 5 days. It's hardly the other side of the world! SIL offered when I planned my trip 3 months ago, so my DP didn't have to take annual leave. I worked with someone that had left 3 children at home. Where I went is hardly suitable for children of any age.

I like how you own that, blink ☺️

blink I used to say the same but have softened my approach given my in laws!

"How many secular schools are there in the uk? Google is giving me nothing."

The short answer is next to none.

What do you mean by a secular school? If you mean the state schools that aren't CofE, Catholic, Muslim etc - well they're not secular either.

Until recently, all standard, non-religious schools were bound by law to provide an act of worship that's broadly Christian in nature. I always assumed they were secular but this means they weren't at all. Ironically "religious" schools have no such requirement - it's left up to them.

In practice, some standard state schools are very Christian (e.g. our nearest primary), the kids sing hymns, have religious assembly, are encouraged to pray etc. Others (e.g. the school we sent DS to) fudge the Christian worship requirement by doing things like asking the DC to light candles and think about wonder and awe or discuss morality in assembly without any mention of Christianity or singing of hymns, so they are effectively secular.

So, standard state schools that are effectively secular are that way despite the rules not because of them IYSWIM. There are no figures, AFAIK on how many schools do this.

I have a feeling the requirement may have changed slightly in very recent years though, does anyone know? I think maybe schools were allowed to opt out of the requirement, although my memory is hazy and I may have imagined that bit!