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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be angry that MIL may have indoctrinated my child?

510 replies

FruitCider · 13/08/2016 19:51

I've been away for just under a week volunteering abroad and got home this morning. My mother in law (reverend) has been to stay with my partner whilst I went away. I'm completely atheist, partner is agnostic. MIL tried to give me a nativity set at Christmas for DD and a book full of bible stories, I declined and said I didn't want my daughter exposed to religion by people with a bias to a particular religion until she was 7/8.

I've come home today and my 3.5yo DD is continuously talking about Jesus, how God made the planet and told me I should thank god that my journey was safe. My partner says MIL had not mentioned religion when he was at home but he had to leave DD with MIL on Tuesday and Thursday whilst he went to work.

I'm absolutely RAGING! AIBU to be this angry? I literally want to banish MIL from my house and tell her she is not allowed contact with my DD for the foreseeable future.

Also is my DD likely to forget about God as she grows up if it's not mentioned again? Or is she now indoctrinated forever?

Sorry to those who may find this post offensive, I just wanted my DD to make her own mind up when she was old enough to understand that religion is a belief and there is no firm evidence for a God. She could have decided herself to be a Christian and I would have accepted that.

OP posts:
Benedikte2 · 14/08/2016 14:54

Just be realistic Fruit and think of your DD's age and stage of development. She would be talking in the same enthusiastic way if she'd just been introduced to beetles or lady birds or monkeys. Kids of that age find the world a fascinating place, esp if told by someone with enthusiasm for the subject. Maybe she hasn't related in the same way to the info about Ramadan etc because it didn't have relevance to her at the time.
Don't whatever you do indicate that the J word pushes one of your buttons.
We can't control what our children think/ believe in when they are capable of independent thought but need to trust that we have given them the skills to think clearly, challenge what they are told by others etc People who have had their thinking done for them when young tend to believe the first really persuasive person who comes along -- witness the accounts of those taken in by cults.

RichardBucket · 14/08/2016 14:54

Nobody can say with absolute certainty that God does not exist, therefore it's wrong to pass this belief on their child, especially if that child is growing up in a Christian country.

What nonsense. Nobody can say with absolutely certainty that fire-breathing dragons don't exist but I'm not going to teach my children that it's a reasonable thing to believe.

Booboostwo · 14/08/2016 14:58

You have a huge MIL problem not only over her extremist religious views but also over her racism, intolerance and her view of you. This is not someone who has some different view from you so that you could simply say to DD 'Grandma believes X, I believe Y, daddy believes Z, you make your own mind up' (as an aside I am an atheist and 5yo DD says she's a Christian who believes in resurrection, because the man on the cross seems nice and she doesn't want to die!).

What does your DH think about all this? Your MIL is likely to come up with racist views, anti-Muslim views, intolerance of foreigners, etc. and present these to your DD as the truth. I daren't ask what her views on homosexuality might be but I suspect you'll have a massive problem there as well.

If she was my MIL I would consider NC.

Booboostwo · 14/08/2016 15:00

Nobody can say with absolute certainty that God does not exist...

Well rationally it's fairly clear that God doesn't exist which is why theologians as far back as Augustine and Aquinas make such a virtue of blind faith.

Original poster
FruitCider · 14/08/2016 15:01

I daren't ask what her views on homosexuality might be

She recently sent a gay couple who came out in her church for conversion therapy Hmm she believes it is an illness that can be treated.

OP posts:
Marysunshine · 14/08/2016 15:04

She will hear all sorts of perspectives while she grows up and the only way she will be able to 'make her own mind up' is to be allowed to hear varied viewpoints.

She will hear more views on religion at school, from TV and from seeing nativity scenes in town centres etc.

Eventually she will draw her own conclusions on what she wants to believe by watching how people behave - not from what they say.

At 3, it's a bit premature to worry about 'indoctrination', but how you can bar a Rev from talking about what is central to their life ..................

Original poster
FruitCider · 14/08/2016 15:04

Nobody can say with absolutely certainty that fire-breathing dragons don't exist

The onus is on the people that claim fire breathing dragons exist to prove that they do, not for anyone to prove something doesn't exist. This is Russell's tea pot fallacy.

OP posts:
RaptorInaPorkPieHat · 14/08/2016 15:13

You need to hide your mug when she visits I'd hate to think of it getting broken.

Marysunshine · 14/08/2016 15:13

However - finding it hard to stomach that this mil with such poisonous perspectives is actually a Rev ( curious to know what church she is a Rev in).
I'd want to give her a seriously wide berth because of her views. She does sound unhinged

falange · 14/08/2016 15:14

YABU and slightly hysterical. Get a grip. Your little girl is 3. What she thinks now she may not think in years to come. Plus,what will you do if she decides to become a Christian later on? Or a Muslim. Or a Pagan? She may not be an atheist like you. Let her see her grandmother.

SandyPantz · 14/08/2016 15:23

Nobody can say with absolute certainty that God does not exist, therefore it's wrong to pass this belief on their child

I feel that there is absolute certainty and years worth of documented proof, that if a god worth worshiping did exist, he/she/it would not condone any of the worlds major religions, except maybe possibly the quakers?

Boffered1 · 14/08/2016 15:34

DH and I are atheists but MIL is a firm believer and asked us our feelings on her sharing her views with DD who was around 3 at the time. DH and i were happy with that as long as it was clear it is her belief not ours and cannot be proven as a fact. From age 3 to around 8 DD choose to believe too. DD is now almost 11 and having questioned more closely has reached the conclusion that she too is atheist. MIL has her viewpoint and I have mine. DD got to hear both and ultimately made up her own mind. That said you did not have the same agreement with your MIL and if it was presented as fact to your DD then YANBU

Flatscissors · 14/08/2016 15:39

YABU. I share your views on religion, but to think you can insulate your daughter from religion is to be as King Canute in the face of a tsunami. Instead focus on introducing her to alternate viewpoints and to encourage her critical facility. She'll find her own beliefs eventually.

Craigie · 14/08/2016 15:44

You're indoctrinating her by pretending that religion doesn't exist. She'll learn all about it as soon as she gets to school anyway. Your MIL looked after your child while both of her parents were absent, and you've the nerve to complain because she told her some stories? Get a grip.

andreasee · 14/08/2016 15:45

I've just had my mother visit for a fortnight, she is a born again of sorts. She brought Bible stories and my daughter enjoyed them, over and over again. She then boasted on FaceTime with my aunt that my daughter now 'knows that god created the world'.

She knows I disagree with organised religion and am strongly agnostic. I had to bite my tongue a lot and only say 'Some people believe this...' so I understand how angry you feel.

I don't feel it is reasonable to expect to shield your child from religious talk, but it is reasonable to be annoyed that your mother-in-law went against your wishes. In the end, though, you spend more time with your child than she does, so it's up to you to make sure sure other beliefs are discussed.

2kids2dogsnosense · 14/08/2016 15:49

Your MIL is a priest - your DH is agnostic. How many years of "indoctrination" did he have, and he still sits on the fence re: is there a God?

I think YABVU. I totally agree with Ginand Jag that your daughter is blessed to have a grandparent who cares enough to open her to the 6option6 of a God.

I admit that I am an Anglican, and I do believe that there is a loving God who cherishes all creation - but as I say, it doesn't seem to have had a great effect on your other half does it? Just chill out and let it go.

Mention it to MIL if you feel it's necessary, but I'm not sure why you regard a religious belief (and bear in mind that atheism is a faith state, too) so very, very dreadful.

derxa · 14/08/2016 15:50

I would tell MIL that you won't be leaving her alone with DD for the foreseeable as she has broken your trust. Oh FFS

Original poster
FruitCider · 14/08/2016 15:54

You're indoctrinating her by pretending that religion doesn't exist.

One cannot be indoctrinated into a lack of faith. You might want to check your definition there. Anyway, read the whole thread!

OP posts:
Mammyashy1 · 14/08/2016 16:01

I think your right to be angry but at the same time I think keeping your child away from any religion is possibly not the best way. Teach her about all religions and beliefs then she will make her own choice to be like you, your partner, your mother in law or even follow her own path. I am aganostic and have always spoke to my daughter about all different religions and she's very respectful. I do think maybe the MIL spoke about God your partner grew up with her and still turned out aganostic so it doesn't mean it will stick

HeCantBeSerious · 14/08/2016 16:02

You're indoctrinating her by pretending that religion doesn't exist. She'll learn all about it as soon as she gets to school anyway. Your MIL looked after your child while both of her parents were absent, and you've the nerve to complain because she told her some stories? Get a grip.*

You're being ridiculous. Do kids believe in Santa because they're born believing or because they're told to believe by adults? It's the same thing to my mind.

I'd be furious if anyone told my DC that Santa existed (they've never believed or been encouraged to) never mind one god of one person's belief. If it's prefaced by "some people believe that....." That's fine, but to present it as fact? Absolutely not.

ManaFleet · 14/08/2016 16:02

I am furious on your behalf, so you must be incandescent. I suggest having a very serious conversation with m-i-l, leaving no room for misunderstanding. This is completely unacceptable and in direct opposition to the decision you have made. You have already told her 'not until she's 7/8' so this is hugely bloody out of order. Tell her that if she is not prepared to stick to your parameters for your child's upbringing, you will have to keep them apart.

To those people commenting that a) the child is lucky, and b) that OP should have anticipated that m-i-l would do this (and therefore that it's her own fault)... What on earth? You may think the child is 'blessed' but the OP had very clearly stated her decision about HER child's religious education. OP has already said that when her child is a little older she's happy to discuss religion, but not yet. M-i-l has massively overstepped the line.

What if it were any other lifestyle choice we were discussing? What if the family were vegetarian and m-i-l gave her meat? Or if she were one religion and m-i-l had tried to convert her to another?

Good luck OP. Stand your ground.

Memoires · 14/08/2016 16:05

I entirely agree with you, FruitCider. My family are devout Catholics, but dh and I simply aren't. DD has been taken to church by my mum many many times, but has still grown up as a non- believer. This is, I think, simply because I and dh both took the 'some people believe that' approach. When they are as young as your dd is now, you are still the biggest influence (that's why Jesuits say "give me a child to the age of 7", I think.

Your dd will be safe from religion, I'm sure.

derxa · 14/08/2016 16:06

She is also one of the most racist people I have ever met, she refers to the people in Calais as cockroaches and keeps trying to convince me that we need to shut the borders as everyone living in Calais are Daesh. Her own mother was a refugee so I find her lack of empathy shocking. She told me I would be gang raped the morning I drove to France.
Yeah right! Confused

kiloh · 14/08/2016 16:07

I read an interesting theory on this once that by shielding your children from all religion because you are an aethiesit on the pretence that you want them to pick for themselves later you are in fact just imposing your own views on them, best that they experience and learn about all of them and make up their own minds later if that's what you really want - and don't judge them if it doesn't tie in nicely with yours

originalmavis · 14/08/2016 16:12

She sounds like Katie Hopkins.

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