To think that having a child doesn't absolve you from making an effort with friends?

[Overthinker2016]

Many of my friends are married with children.

I get that their priorities are different from mine now. I get that they are "busier" than childless me (although busy is a bit subjective I think). I am happy to spend time with their children and/or OH for what it's worth (if I was invited to!)

However AIBU to think they should still make a bit of an effort to keep in touch? One friend in particular has been coming back to me with dates since about February .

Do I cut them some slack and just keep on being the one making the effort or just stop and lose some otherwise very nice friends.

Seeing friends is a damn sight more life-affirming than a haircut.

Mother with you there. Friend I've not seen in ages gives me a window of opportunity even for half an hour for a quick catch-up in person or even just on the phone or a haircut that could be rescheduled? It's no contest, surely.

I had a close friend drop me when she had a baby a few years ago and it really hurt - it wasn't not meeting up which is more understandable, she wouldn't bother replying to texts at all. I got her a card and present for when the baby was born and she wouldn't even respond to give me a time to come round and drop them off. (I've probably still got them somewhere...)

A mutual friend had a baby at a similar time and still had me over for a cup of tea every few months. Non-responsive friend text me a few months back and mutual friend has told me that she's now complaining being dropped by childless friends because I haven't responded.

I'm sorry, but you can't ignore someone for 3 years and then decide that it's finally convenient to talk to them. If you don't want to prioritise your friendships then that's a choice you can make, but don't be surprised when the friendships die out.

Exactly. You have to make some effort. Most mothers still manage to phone their own parents and keep some type of contact. Every few months is fine. 2-3 years is not. And if you can find time to post on mums net, you can give a friend a quick call or text.
I have had friends who are really more acquaintance friends. They are people you do things with, and they often fall away when circumstances change. With real friends, you make some effort to keep it going.

I think it depends how much you value your friends.

It's easy to get subsumed in baby and toddler world and forget you will ever have time to yourself. It's also worse for many women as their husbands/partners don't appear to be true partners, and they end up as default carer for the children all the time, weekends, evenings, whilst their partner goes out doing their hobby or coming home late from work.

The women I know who have the best friends and also have children all work f/t, and I've concluded that it might be because this group don't get stuck in the mum=household entertainer/dad=can't even care for his own children model. They are also used to going out and about, even staying away from their children, for work events, so the idea of a weekend with the girls is not horrifying to them, and they know their partner can do the sole childcare on weekend (I have friends whose husbands have never ever taken the children).

The busiest mums I know have time for friends, they invite them over for a quick pasta on a school night, to watch a match or social event at home, and it's always casual. I also took a week off when mine were about 3/4 and went on a tour to see all my good friends, with dad staying at home. It was brilliant! I also see friends when I travel for work, or when we are driving past. I email a lot, text a little bit if nothing else will do, call when I get a moment. Those moments are more and more now the children are heading into their teens.

Now the children are older, I'm glad I made the effort, I don't feel lonely or like I have no friends now the children are getting older and wanting to go off by themselves, I have lots of social opportunities/friends/people to call on in a crisis, but it's down to effort and having a supportive partner. If you don't have that, trying to maintain friendships is almost impossible.

YABU. Having small DC makes you much busier than anyone who doesn't. 'Making an effort' is what parents of under 3s do all the time, pretty much 24/7.

'Making an effort' and 'busy' are a completely different thing before you have kids. The expectations of friends are so much higher.

She will probably come out of the little children thing every once in a while but it is very consuming. And it will be to her family's timetable, not anyone else's. So different from pre-kids when you were negotiating different times to meet etc - now she has extra considerations.

Yanbu ...although sometimes works both ways... I got dropped by some friends when I became a mum, as if I was somehow "uncool" now I had a child had eldest quite young though

Someone with young kids is very busy. But you can not say that no one else is as busy. I know trying to work and caring for a dependent adult including getting up in the night was probably busier. At the time there was no such thing as carers leave.

Actually plenty of under-3s sleep quite well. It is perfectly possible to agree that a kind friend can come round with a bottle of wine for a takeaway.

It is tiring and wearing and very, very boring, having small children. But that makes it even more important to try and keep up with your friends. Otherwise you'll vanish into some ghastly family unit and never be heard of again.

I've dropped all the narcissists who thought their life dramas needed attending to over my kids. I've now got a lovely group of real friends. Having dc really taught me who was worth making an effort with.

Annawoolf, where exactly did I say that my life dramas needed attended to over my friends' kids?

I get that they are "busier" than childless me (although busy is a bit subjective I think)

YABU - if only for this statement.

anna, I don't think from OP's post that she has been demanding that her friend prioritise the OP over her friend's children. Just asking for the odd text or meetup when it is convenient for her friend. Crikey.

Any, my friend that ditched me when she had a child made the effort when she wanted to. The only time she's contacted me since having a baby that wasn't responding to me starting something was, and I paraphrase her, "Hi, just to remind you it is [her DH's] [significant milestone] birthday next week, and gor blimey isn't life busy and it's easy to forget things! loves!"

The insinuation was that because he wasn't having a party, I wouldn't remember to get him a card or present. I'm not sure who the narcissist is here but I'm sure it wasn't me! I wasn't sure whether to watsapp back, "FUCK. OFF. I REMEMBER MY FRIENDS' BIRTHDAYS. ALSO, FUCK OFF TO THE FAR SIDE OF FUCK WHEN YOU GET THERE." Or, "Hi, just want to remind you what basic manners are. Gor blimey isn't it easy to forget when you're busy! loves!"

Dramas? What like a close relative of mine being murdered or my DP having an operation? Yeah why would any friend with young kids think that is important?

I've got a childless friend I still make time for her although her busy makes me laugh compared to my busy and sometimes frustrates me a lot. But that's my issue I still love my friend to bits and would never ditch her

Have returned after a self imposed break from MN to see the same old parent/non parent arguments still being played out.

Yeah, sure it's hard work having young children. But actually it's also bloody hard work having a full time, demanding job whether or not you have children. I have two demanding and annoying young children. Neither slept and both had various health issues. I also worked full time in academia from the time they were 3 months old. I still found time to keep in contact with old friends either those with or without children.

Before I had the children I had been dropped frequently by friends when they got pregnant. I can't think of what I did wrong other than not get pregnant and so couldn't possibly understand - although there were lots of things that I was/had experienced that they could not possibly understand but it didn't stop,them from interfering. Interestingly those friends then reappeared after about 3 years and wanted to meet up, have booze lunches etc....but I couldn't because I was working full time. Like most childless people. I certainly don't know of any who are living this fantasy life of endless parties and nights out....they are overworked, tired, under pressure, stressed and in their rare time off want to chill and relax with friends and family. Kind of like parents.

Having children did not make me more busy, more tired. Life and getting older did that.

I like to go out with friends for a meal and then go off to the toilet for a bit, just to sit. With no one bothering me, trying to sit on my knee, bang on the door etc. Bliss.

If a friend came round with a takeaway she's have to sit amidst mess (if a good friend, for a less food one I'd have been up all night tidying), talking to my dh as there's nowhere else for him to go, and watching my toddler breastfeeding.
I think we would both have preferred less frequent meetings, but out of the house!

I had a girl beg me for English conversation lessons. I did one today sat on the floor in the kids bedroom/playroom. It summed up why I don't have childless friends round. I felt uncomfortable breast feeding, toddler had a tantrum because I wasn't listening enough, baby wanted a nap but I couldn't put her down as I would be leaving friend for 15/30 mins. Thought of this thread. Weekends for me would be ok but ebf baby would have to come

Goodness I'm not sure I thought this would ignite such a lot of debate or comments! Thanks for all of your comments.

Burdog , GingerLDN , practy - sorry to hear you are having similar issues and good to have your perspective.

I agree people seem to emerge again after a few years. I have a friend whose children are a little older talking about a 'girls holiday' in the next couple of years. She's not wanted to holiday with me for a decade and I think I would need to prioritise my partner and other friends who I've holidayed with regularly over the last few years, much as its great she has more time now.

heartattack - it was interesting to hear that you thought she might feel she didn't have interesting news to share etc, I hadn't really thought of that.

midcenturymatch - I'm not sure I think I have "high expectations" . I've seen her once this year! I do have childless friends but the fact is lots of people my age do have kids, so it's quite hard. Also I happen to like my old friends! i.e. regardless of whether they've had a child.

TheWindinthePillows - you sound fab and I can totally see that a supportive partner is crucial to maintaining any sort of social life.

Great post Zeekzeek

I will take on board from other the comments that I don't know what busy means. Most people you would think have time to send a quick text though. Surely that is not to much to ask?

I'm slightly amused that some of the longest posts on this thread were from those who didn't have time for childless friends because they are far to busy! Including the person who gave a detailed breakdown of their entire day. That said, I'm sure having children is relentless (although I hope fun too sometimes rather than just a slog!)

Too busy not to busy

Grr

I definitely agree that it's not all about time and busyness- I feel I don't have anything interesting to talk about these days as I'm so consumed in DS, all my friends who I used to meet up with are all childless so I don't talk about it with them. I am also hugely fat and feel like I've lost myself and I'm ashamed for people to see me. I do keep in touch by text regularly but I'm hoping to come out of my chrysalis at some stage once this next pregnancy and the young years are done!

To be fair, a lot of the work of parenting a baby involves sitting very still while the baby feeds or sleeps. I'm pretty sure that I mostly communicated with friends and family via Facebook for several years (I mean that literally - I still hardly ever phone my parents since I got out of the habit once phone conversations became a maximum of 2 minutes long).

I'm lucky that my best friend did an amazing job of keeping in touch when I went underground with two sleepless children. I know that she was hurt when I stopped meeting up with her. But she had a job with long hours, and I was asleep (in 45 minute spurts) from 8pm. I woke up every morning nauseous from lack of sleep. I wasn't able to meet my own needs, let alone those of anyone else. And I think that's really where the line is. As soon as my own needs were being met on a regular basis, I was able to spend proper time with my friends where I was able to interact with them and support them and actually have a real relationship with them. Before that point, seeing friends felt like just another chore that I was doing instead of meeting my own needs. It felt like the friendship equivalent of having sex when I didn't want to just to keep a man happy. And I don't blame friends of new parents for moving on and finding other friends, or being sad that their friend is being rubbish. But I think that it's important to recognise that the rubbishness doesn't always means that they don't care, just that they don't really have any extra capacity to be social.

I'm sorry to hear you don't feel good about how you look JohnLithgow - but I'm sure your friends don't care about that stuff.

I would say out of all my childless friends probably half are not childless by choice. They either can't have children or aren't in a position to have them (not met the right partner etc) - so to be cut off by friends who have a baby almost feels like being devalued because we don't have what you have. I would like to have had a baby by now but that's not how life has turned out for me.

That's how I felt OP, for a very, very long time. I didn't think I could have kids and so the cutting off was doubly hurtful because the message was you dint understand because you don't have children and you will never understand and you art, therefore, a failure.

I find that it is mostly the women who have children under 35 who assume that childless people are out partying because, maybe, that's what their lives were before they had their children. As we get older, whatever our circumstances, we slow down and have different priorities. Before mine were born, when I was in my late thirties, I had already given up clubbing and drinking to excess because I was older and had responsibilities and, yes, I got tired more easily. Even then I preferred to meet people in my home, or theirs and at weekends (as weeks were manic with work - at least 60h weeks). I really resented it when I was the one making an effort all the time, the one travelling 100 miles to meet with someone for lunch - only to be kept waiting for an hour due to sine domestic crisis. That incident meant I got home at 10pm and needed to ge up age in at 6am to travel to France for work. Not that that mattered to the "friend". I didn't have children so my time was not as precious or worthy.