To want Nanny to speak all German to kids?

[mika2]

German Nanny (fluent English) starts next month 4 days a week (8-6pm) and I think it's a great opportunity for kids to learn German. They are 3 and 1. Nanny said she was happy to do so during interview. I have very rusty conversational German and also plan to practice my German. I would like her to only speak to kids in German from day 1 and read German books, sing songs in German, watch German cartoons on iPad etc with the aim of them having a good understanding of the language this time next year, rather than just knowing colours etc. Anyway DH thinks it's crazy and kids will be very confused etc. He vetoed putting this in her contract and doesn't see having a second language as a priority whereas I feel really strongly about it... Just to be clear I didn't deliberately hire her because she is German, we liked her and it was an added bonus. Who is BU?

I hope my pp can still make sense

Noramum

You are right that thee nanny may very well be a professional who already lives here, speaks English well, and is not especially interested in improving it further.

I am making the assumption that she is part of the larger group who are more like au pairs i.e she is coming directly from Germany, and using a nanny role either to spend a gap year here (and improve her English), or as a stepping stone role, while sh improves her English, makes a few friends, finds another job, and somewhere to live.

But her speaking in German 24/7 to them when they're learning English is a bit of a tall order.

Nonsense. German is her mother tongue. English nannies and au pairs are expected to do this all the time overseas (not just Europe but Gulf states too)

And you'd have to have exclusively German nannies from now in order for it to stick
True

Agree with what danTDM said (tri-lingual dd here).

And good points by 5moreminutes

Experience of another language - at whatever level- is always useful! Just an awareness that there are other langs spoken in the world, that people can speak more than one or two langs, is useful knowledge to acquire imho!

Oh and meant to say, the earlier that knowledge is acquired, the better!

Go for it!

Yes, it'd be great if this nanny was with you long-term, and followed by another German-speaker and you took frequent holidays to Germany and you lived near SE24 for the bilingual school. But even if you didn't do any of those things, it would offer an opportunity for your DC to learn a few words (or more) in another language, understand how languages work and are acquired, experience the "magic" of practice and repetition. It's really a great opportunity for them.

I went from Hebrew to full-immersion Afrikaans aged 3 my poor parents. Came out fine and now love learning languages.

noramum - did you miss this part of the OP: "Nanny said she was happy to do so "
Of course, people have to agree to things during the interview and real life can be different, but there's no reason to believe the nanny will refuse to do it. Plenty of people go abroad using their native language at work and learning the host language in the evening.

What a lovely opportunity for your kids, but I might be a bit careful about saying German only from the start 100% of the time.

I've worked in nurseries with children just arrived in the UK in a total immersion experience of English, and parents often tell staff very strictly not to try to talk to them in their own language feeling it will slow up their acquiring English - not easy when you have a distressed toddler who has no idea what you want! It often isn't the happiest experience for the children. There's often a period where they start avoiding interaction because it's too hard, and it can bash confidence.

What seems to work best at first from the research is using both languages together. Songs and rhymes in both languages, giving names to every day objects, then nouns in pictures as you read stories together and naming what you see as you're out and about in the new language, (think of the 12-18 month stage where they point at and name everything they see), teaching every day social phrases in the new language, and then building up to conversational language.

The nanny doesn't have to be a language teacher. How many parents on this thread are language teachers? Yet you all taught your dcs to speak English (or other languages).

Talking in your native language is not an imposition. And even if the nanny wants to learn English she's not going to learn much from a 3 year old, she will learn it from the parents and other people she comes into contact with.

It is sad that there is so little knowledge about language learning on this thread and so much negativity.

Language learning is never wasted.

Don't listen to anyone who says you are being unreasonable - especially not to the people who say the nanny needs to bond with the kids in English before switching to German. One person, one language - always the same language. I say this both as the parent of two bilingual DCs (in their 20s now) and as someone who has been in the nanny's position - believe me, I know what i'm talking about. Your children will find it easy - they are like sponges at that age and you are giving them a fantastic gift that will develop their brains even if they don't speak fluent German as adults. There are multiple studies about language learning and bilingualism and they all agree that it is normal to be bilingual..... even in the UK which is notoriously bad at teaching languages a huge percentage of the population does actually speak more than one language as a matter of course (just not English and French: more like English and Punjabi or Polish). An added bonus is that your own German will improve from hearing the children interact with the nanny. You are employing her, it's up to you to make your requirements clear.

i can see your idea has some merit but am with your dh.

you leave your kids with a nanny who then speaks to them in a language they can't understand.

just get her to teach them some german songs, phrases, colours, numbers etc... and she can build it up over time.

From someone who does actually have a bilingual child, do it. They are young enough it will be fine. She understands English, so she'll know what the 3yo wants if they speak English to her. 1yo isn't speaking enough yet for it to matter and they are like little sponges at that age.

She can always translate the odd word/phrase if they are really confused by something, but honestly, they are young enough that it is unlikely to be a big problem. Kids pick up languages very very easily, because at those ages, they are constantly picking up English words as well. I would not make her insist that the DC speak to her in German - it tends to be a bit of a mix at the ages they are and they are just starting out. Just her speaking to them in German without doing the whole "I don't understand" thing should be fine, you'll find that they reproduce the language anyway, and it might help DH's fears?

I agree there is a lot of negativity about language learning among people who are not familiar with it. I don't know why this should be because it actually has huge benefits.

I completely disagree that there is no point doing this if they won't keep it up. My dh lived in France for a year and a half aged 2-3 during which time he became bilingual. He subsequently forgot all his French. Yet somehow managed to do a masters in Paris (in French) having only GCSE French, attained fluency within a couple of months f arriving and has a fantastic accent (as frequently commented by French people). So even if you 'forget' it's still valuable. Also, no reason they shouldn't keep it up. English people are unused to bilingualism and think it's a huge deal and unattainable without spending years in the country. Completely false. Of course you get rusty, but very high proficiency in a European language can be attained with a few hours practice a week once you've learned the basics. I would not encourage young children of mine to become fluent in a language I couldn't understand (as with white kids in NYC with mandarin nannies) due to safeguarding concens, but with a language I could understand or learn myself, I think it's a fantastic idea.

See, "you leave your kids with a nanny who then speaks to them in a language they can't understand "

is a misconception. And it's not sad. Most if not all parents do it all the time. Any time you leave a child under about three with a person who they don't interact with every day you are leaving them with somebody who speaks to them in a language they don't understand.

Do you think that children understand English fully when they are one and three years old? They don't. (Granted, the 3yo will be more used to understanding and particularly being understood, more than the 1yo. But since the nanny will understand the 3yo, that's not a problem.) They are still passively learning huge amounts of the language. They mostly pick up what we communicate to them by our body language and through repetition, not through the specific words we use. English in particular is peculiar in having several different ways to say anything at all. That's how they can deal with multiple caregivers who have different accents, different dialects, etc. It's why they tend to use one phrase themselves (e.g. "All gone") but understand when somebody says any of the following: "There's nothing left" "No more" "It's empty" "Finished" to mean the same thing.

It isn't as challenging or scary for children to pick up extra terms which already fit into a framework they are familiar with. It would be scary for adults because we already expect to understand 99+% of what we hear, but for young toddlers, they don't.

It sounds like a fantastic idea, I would 100% go for it in the OP's position.

I can no longer actively converse well in the languages I learned at school and university because I have since become fully bilingual with the language of my country of residence (and of DH), but I know a) they've not disappeared, I understand a lot and give me a week in a country and a whole lot comes flooding back, and b) those languages enabled me to become bilingual as fast as I did. And the world that opened up for me due to learning this language this quickly and to this high a level is far too outing for me to describe here, but it has been life-changing.

I agree there is a lot of negativity about language learning among people who are not familiar with it. I don't know why this should be because it actually has huge benefits

I don't see that on this thread, the most insightful posts have been from people who speak more than one language. Although, very few have come on and said, yes, I hired a nanny speaking German for a year or two and now the children are fluent. In fact, none I don't think, so far.

The OP specifically says she doesn't just want a numbers/colours level, in which case the commitment is high.

I also think people underestimate how difficult it is to get toddlers to speak a language if they don't want to and no-one else in the family does and they know you understand English. I know heaps of families where it all starts off nicely saying hello in three languages, but then the child clocks you get English and ends up not replying except in English. I have also known children who get very distressed about not be able to communicate- and some children who enter an immersion environment such as English school find it very hard going and quite distressing, though most do incredibly well once you get going. Three or four year olds can sometimes take to things very easily, other times, very stubbornly. If you have difficulty getting them to wear a coat, doesn't it make sense that sometimes they are not 100% compliant, or have a big old paddy because they can't reply to be understood.

What I'm saying is that it is harder work than the OP's initial post seems to suggest, her goals are slightly unrealistic, and the key point is her husband isn't on board, so won't necessarily provide the support if things start to be difficult or the toddler doesn't want to speak German/only speaks English. The families I know who have made bilingualism work either a) have the whole family speak the home language, English outside or b) do OPOL like a religion and spend a lot of time in the country concerned/have school reinforcement/do language lessons (e.g. in Arabic where there's a different letter system to learn).

Everyone is right, there's everything to gain by learning a few words in another language and getting confident in speaking them. I wouldn't discourage this at all, but the OP isn't realistic and her husband isn't on board, and it would be a shame for this to be a stressful placement for all concerned because of this, especially as the nanny may not want to speak German constantly whilst managing two small children in the UK (and what happens when she goes out and the cat is out of the bag when they hear her speak great English!)

Go for it.

In some parts of the world, kids grow up multi-lingual (and I do mean multi-). I've known one woman who grew up trilingual in French, Italian and Spanish (Italian granny was very involved in her childhood). I met her in England where she was studying in English.

Anyone who says otherwise should look into it, kids' brains are wired for this. The kids will grow up with a slightly more flexible mind for learning future languages.

If the OP is so minded, there are PLENTY of resources for continuing and consolidating the German learning.

Relatives of mine (6 and 8) don't speak Dutch regularly at home in the UK. Their mum did speak to them mostly in Dutch when they were tiny, but in Holland they UNDERSTAND most of what their relatives are saying; their grandma speaks to them almost exclusively in Dutch and they have a close relationship.

Don't listen to anyone who says you are being unreasonable - especially not to the people who say the nanny needs to bond with the kids in English before switching to German. One person, one language - always the same language
As a former state school specialist ESOL teacher I agree 100%. The introduction of bilingual assistants into classrooms is far more to assist the class teacher than to facilitate the learning of the pupils. Total immersion is the ideal, but failing that one person one language not a confusing bilingual environment.
This German nanny CAN speak English so the rule can be bent in the event of a serious accident, but should not be for a scraped knee.

"you leave your kids with a nanny who then speaks to them in a language they can't understand sad"

Only if they were born understanding a language.

At 1, most of what we say is a new language. For the child learning English or German is the same. Most is still strange. :)
Even at 3, children are still learning quite a lot and they start grasping new languages very quickly.
Even if they resist speaking, at the very least they will understand and it will train their ear.

Whether the husband is on board or not is mostly irrelevant. He won't be the one speaking in German, nor will the OP.
The pps who say that the OP is irrealistic are the ones who don't understand bilingual children and how it works. It's quite different when it's the parents trying to teach the children a different language and another person who spends exclusive time with the children.

"Indeed it is FAR better than a German nanny speaking English badly to the children!"

Very true too.

Re reading the OP I also notice that she is realistic in her aims - she says she wants the kids to understand German. Nowhere does she say that she expects them to speak it fluently.
It is perfectly possible that the children will respond to the nanny in English despite her speaking German to them all the time - this is not a problem - she unerstands English. What woud be usual is for her to them repeat their answer back to them in German, but not to insist on them then saying it in German..... They will speak German as and when they are ready. I spoke my mother tongue to DS1 from before his birth (yes, really - it's a habit to get into).... when he started speaking he spoke his father's language, the language of the country we were living in. I just carried on as I outlined above. When he was 3 I took him to stay with my parents for a month without his Dad - no other language input, my parents are monolingual - he started to speak it and has never looked back. His younger brother, on the other hand, had the "model" of me speaking and being spoken to by DS1 and so he has always used this language to me from when he started to speak.
Kids also know which language to use to which person - the OP's children are not going to start speaking German to her DH..... I've seen little ones do it - they say something to their Mum in her language and then turn around and say exactly the same thing to the nextdoor neighbour in their language without even pausing to take breath. It really does come naturally to them.

Yes! And get peppa pig on dvd in German too. It is so bloody repetitive and simple I am learnings my husbands native language as a result too.
Definitely you are very lucky to have a nanny who will do this.

My DC are 6 and 8 and we are currently doing this with our lovely French au pair who arrived in October. Not full immersion though, she just plays games with them in French, gets them to ask for certain things and watches French cartoons with them now and again. I am pretty fluent in French. DH speaks a bit. It's been slow progress but I think worthwhile - they don't do a second language at their primary school so it was v important to me that they had some kind of intro. They don't understand loads but are improving and can ask for things and say the basics. I'd say just keep it fun - have your nanny teach them body part words, sing songs etc, it all helps. Good luck

Pocoyo on Youtube too.

DS loved it. (not in German)
I'm thinking I could learn from it.

Hahaha. Are you serious? This thread made me laugh. It's a good idea teaching the children German in this way from a young age but to only want Gerrman spoken is a bit too
Much.