To want Nanny to speak all German to kids?

[mika2]

German Nanny (fluent English) starts next month 4 days a week (8-6pm) and I think it's a great opportunity for kids to learn German. They are 3 and 1. Nanny said she was happy to do so during interview. I have very rusty conversational German and also plan to practice my German. I would like her to only speak to kids in German from day 1 and read German books, sing songs in German, watch German cartoons on iPad etc with the aim of them having a good understanding of the language this time next year, rather than just knowing colours etc. Anyway DH thinks it's crazy and kids will be very confused etc. He vetoed putting this in her contract and doesn't see having a second language as a priority whereas I feel really strongly about it... Just to be clear I didn't deliberately hire her because she is German, we liked her and it was an added bonus. Who is BU?

I think youre probably reading a bit too much into DHs psychology BB, and its simply a case of his not wanting the nanny, his kids and his wife speaking a language he doesn't understand. Its a reasonable enough emotion but the OP should point out its nowhere near the level of exclusion he would experience if she were native German with German speaking parents, siblings and cousins.
I really think she should suggest he learns a little. With more interest in the language himself he could enjoy future family holidays in Germany and Austria far more too.

I don't think I have read much more into it than what you've said actually! :)

To be fair, the level of exclusion he would experience if she was a native speaker is irrelevant, because she is not. And perhaps he wouldn't have married a native speaker.

I think you've both made valid points BB and M. He probably does think he will feel like an outsider in his own home if everyone else speaks and understands another language, but given the long hours he works there will probably only be 1-1.5 hours a week (max) when he is around the nanny and the kids so I don't want that small window to dictate what happens during the remaining 38 hours iyswim.

And he thinks this German "obsession" has come out of the blue, but I think it's probably a lack of communication on life goals etc before we got married.

He would also like the DC to sit entrance exams for selective schools and thinks that learning German is a total waste of time from that perspective and we should be getting the nanny to teach them phonics instead. It does slightly worry me that it could affect their English (in the short term) as I wouldn't want to jeopardise their chances of getting into one of these super selective schools.. On the other hand I think the chances are pretty slim anyway as they seem insanely competitive and both DC are summer born.

The language itself doesn't appeal to him at all so there is no way he would take German lessons. In fact if it were Spanish or French I think he would be a bit more open to the idea annoyingly.

I have a friend who is a bilingual nanny (French/English) in London. She speaks French to the youngest child, who she started nannying for when he was a baby, and he is speaking some French now. (She's there four days a week, so for three days a week he doesn't hear any French). However, she speaks mostly English with the older ones, as they were about 5 and 3 when she started working for the family. I think she does things like the colours, numbers and food with them, as well as watching some French videos.

I think it would be great if your nanny could speak to the children in German, but it might be asking a bit much to go for nothing but German from day one. Maybe she could start by saying some vocabulary and instructions in German and then English, and reading stories/singing songs/watching videos, before building up gradually to using more and more German. I have a 3yo and I am sure she would be very confused and possibly distressed if someone who had just become her carer suddenly started speaking to her in nothing but German all day. However, she might start picking bits up after a while if she heard it all the time and the nanny spoke English as well to back it up. Your children are quite likely to do German when they go to secondary school although I don't know if they would forget it all in the intervening time; perhaps they'd always have a good accent.

It is not just monoglot English speakers who question "why German" - I spent a year in Germany at university (not a languages degree) and plenty of German people were mystified why I wanted to learn their language and asked if I wanted to speak to them in English instead. Why didn't I do something useful like Spanish, they asked!

DD spent a couple of years abroad. Colleagues hired her to speak English to their pre-school DCs a couple of times a week. She read to them in English, chatted to them, played with them etc. The parents, who were from a third country, knew some English and conveniently DD knew some of their native language which helped (both she and the parents also spoke a bit of the language of the country they were living in). The DCs were picking up bits of 4 languages: their parents' native language, the language of the country they were living in, English, and another foreign language they were taught at nursery!

Learning ANY foreign language helps you understand your native one much better.

I'd say it's a great opportunity for you them to learn another language, but maybe not full immersion from day 1.

Maybe she could start by saying some vocabulary and instructions in German and then English, and reading stories/singing songs/watching videos, before building up gradually to using more and more German.

This has already been discussed and it is long established that total immersion is the way to go. If the three year old learns that the nanny speaks English to her it won't work, sh will pick up a bit, but sh will not become anywhere near bilingual. Its also a bad habit for the nanny which she may find hard to break (although German is her mother tongue her English is excellent and it is going to be harder work for her to communicate in German with non German children).

I would say all the English books/DVDs should be out away upstairs too when the nanny is there so the kids cannot ask her to read one.

MIKA

Can understand DHs concern about it being detrimental to their chances of getting into a super selective grammar. It would be, but this could be ameliorated if you moved them out of the bilingual school for years five and six. By that point you'll have a very good idea of their chances of getting into a superselective (or not).

only anecdotal from my own observations with my dc.

but, i think there is more language delay/confusion when the 2 parents have different languages and the children are from birth exposed to OPOL.

However, when the parents both speak English, their foundation in English is firm and not delayed. My own dc started learning German later, and only outside the home (kindergarten & school). They are all bilingual, we only ever speak English at home and they speak perfect English with no accent and none of then had any language delay. However friends where the dc were exposed to OPOL for example all did either experience some language delay and / or have a weird 'foreign' sounding English accent.

I guess in summary, if both of you are speaking English to your dc I bet there wouldn't be any language delay, and I bet your dc, by talking to the nanny and (if possible) attending bilingual school, they would be fluent, if not fully bilingual in German.

Hmm that doesn't sound great. Maybe you just need to talk about long term goals for the DC overall and shelve the specifics a bit. If you have time. It doesn't seem impossible to incorporate both of your wishes.

TBH her teaching them phonics would be a total waste of time. It doesn't benefit children to learn phonics early, because if they are that way inclined they will just pick it up faster when it comes to it, and you risk putting them off it if they find it more challenging. It can be fun for them to learn early but it's really of no educational benefit because it's not like they tend to read to glean information under about 7 years old anyway.

Selective schools are later aren't they, 10 or 11 kind of age? By that point their English will have caught up with their peers anyway. Their English will always be dominant as it's the language of the country they are living in and it's your and DH's first language. I don't think that lagging English is something you need to worry about unless the selective school intake is happening before 5 years old - is it? (I don't really know how these things work.)

I would have thought that bilingualism in a European language would be considered a good point for selective schools. Germany's economy is actually doing very well and there are a lot of businesses based there - STEM for example is expanding rapidly in Germany. If that is an area you see your DC working in (which I appreciate is a bit bonkers to be thinking so early, but it does sound like you might be) then German would be a very useful language to know, certainly more relevant than French IMO. I think French is considered a but outdated as a business language these days. Spanish would probably be useful but I don't think German is a terrible choice. Plus (as said) having the foundations of a second language, even without fluency, helps them learn other languages, as it's not really possible to predict what will be relevant 15, 20, 30 years in the future.

(I do think that language skills will be massively in demand, though, and may well give DC the edge in careers over the next few decades.)

We are a OPOL family, four children. Two delayed, one average and one advanced when it came to language acquisition. We were referred to a SALT for ds2 and she specialised in bilingual families. She was a great advocate of OPOL and bilingualism in general and said it is incorrect to consider a delay of speech due to being bilingual.

I don't know much about super selective schools for such a young age, but I imagine they would be quite impressed if a young child spoke a MFL that wasn't a mother tongue of either parent.

just a very brief google of the benefits on brain development when you learn a 2nd language, especially from a very young age, should show it's a no-brainer. Children brought up with a 2nd or more language have measurable benefits in terms of ability to learn, not just other languages, memory etc.

not got time now but just look it up! That would benefit their brain development far more than a few phonics lessons

My own dc started learning German later, and only outside the home (kindergarten & school). They are all bilingual, we only ever speak English at home and they speak perfect English with no accent and none of then had any language delay.

I'm curious. How is their German? And their German accent?

I think it's a great idea. Even if she has to sandwhich the phrases she uses at first, so say the German, then the English and repeat the German. You will be amazed how young children don't need translations or don't get confused or worry that they are not understanding the person.

I teach English to my son's nursery class. It is only a 30 minutes session once a week for four classes. When I first started I did need to say the phrase in Portuguese after English. Eventually I dropped the Portuguese because they knew what I was saying "What's your name?" "What is this" and "What colour is it?" etc. What's even more amazing is that some the children have picked up my accent as well. They sound exactly like my 3 year old son.

Nursery rhymes and songs are a fantastic way to teach language to this age group. She could do some German versions of English songs, I found this worked really well with my classes, because they know the tune. Also when they first learned the songs I used a video for a visual clue.

What it will not do, is harm your children. I have never bought into the one language one adult thing. I speak whichever language flows out first. Our older children have a better grasp of the grammar of both languages than a lot of their Brazilian and English peers.

well, i ,myself can't tell, I can't hear their German accent iyswim and I can't gauge their German, but I have asked other people who have told me only ds1, obviously the eldest!, has a very slight accent (but then could pass for someone from elsewhere in Germany). I spoke to ds2 teacher last year who had no idea he wasn't a native German speaker, in fact several of his teachers have expressed surprise that they have English as a 1st language, so clearly they do, to the average German, sound German. They all started Kindergarten aged 5 except for dd who was younger.

We have only ever spoken English at home, and we are hopelessly lazy so only have English tv. So they have a clear language and cultural divide of an English home bubble and German outside the home.

BB

I assume its the North Kent super selective Grammar schools (11+) that the OP refers to, not the selective academic private schools which interview 5 year olds for entry.

However going to a bilingual school will have some negative impact on the kids vocabulary in English even at eleven, but this is probably compensated by the extra brain stimulation which bilingualism gives (as mentioned earlier and a well researched effect).

Definitely not being unreasonable. Loads of benefits, no negatives. I grew up bilingual and also I rarely use my 2nd language, it comes back when I need it.

ErnesttheBavarian we're the same. But the two oldest were over 8 when they moved and didn't really know the language as DH wasn't consistant with speaking it at home. Now both sound like natives (DH is native and confirmed this). The youngest two are fully bilingual, they were under 4 and both speak English in the house and Portuguese everywhere else, without any problems.

Does the OP say she lives in Kent?

There's a German school in Richmond.

There are grammars around there - Tiffins, but equally there are many independent schools.

No. TBF I assumed she meant the bilingual state school in SE24 but youre right it could be the private one in Ham.

Article on bbc today
www.bbc.com/future/story

www.bbc.com/future/story/20160811-the-amazing-benefits-of-being-bilingual

Sorry. For some reason didn't work 1st time

It's a lovely idea and the kids might find it quite fun. I've read up on it a bit because we want to bring up our daughter to be bilingual (English and German) and the dominant language i.e. English won't suffer just because theyre learning another language. Kids are much better at managing these things than we are.

Incidentally, we are looking for a Germany nanny to start from January. Where did you find yours? Any advice much appreciated.

I grew up with 4 languages being spoken to me by different people and I can assure you I have never been anywhere near confused. People need to get over their hang-ups over languages. Children pick them up easily.

I don't think it should be in her contract. But I do think it's a good idea to take advantage of having a native speaker of a foreign language and encourage her to speak German with them, maybe once a week. Maybe you and your DH should join in too eg have a German speaking day once a week.

A good idea in principle but how would it work in emergencies/for discipline? For instance when my neice is asked to stop doing something in a language other than English she won't always, because she doesn't fully understand urgency in the other 4 languages she's fluent in.

Also, how would you feel if they became more fluent in German than English as time went on? It's possible.