To want Nanny to speak all German to kids?

[mika2]

German Nanny (fluent English) starts next month 4 days a week (8-6pm) and I think it's a great opportunity for kids to learn German. They are 3 and 1. Nanny said she was happy to do so during interview. I have very rusty conversational German and also plan to practice my German. I would like her to only speak to kids in German from day 1 and read German books, sing songs in German, watch German cartoons on iPad etc with the aim of them having a good understanding of the language this time next year, rather than just knowing colours etc. Anyway DH thinks it's crazy and kids will be very confused etc. He vetoed putting this in her contract and doesn't see having a second language as a priority whereas I feel really strongly about it... Just to be clear I didn't deliberately hire her because she is German, we liked her and it was an added bonus. Who is BU?

The op can speak German as well

Your oh is a dick it's fab oppatuintly

ExDP was an army brat and fluent in Dutch at 3. Lost it all when the family returned to the UK.

By all means, get the Nanny to teach some German words/phrases/songs, but 100% won't do anything unless you keep it up long term.

DS was a prolific BSL signer before he could speak in sentences (I am partially deaf and one of his Aunts is profoundly Deaf). As soon as he had words to communicate with it didn't matter how much I signed, he dropped it by choice. He struggles to remember French now, even when I witter away to him lol.

Marma

Total immersion isn't an option, though, as the nanny is with them 40 hours week.

I still think it's worth looking at sites to see what works for your specific set up, OP.

Shiny my kids are fully bilingual (I speak the language well enough to work using only my second language but am not bilingual nor in all honesty genuinely fluent - learnt the language in my 30s) and I think it is an excellent idea.

The details will need thinking through as somebody said, but it would be a massive shame to miss the opportunity. The children will not become bilingual but may become fluent if the nanny stays a few years. They may lose the language later but will retain the ability to learn languages more easily.

My DH could be trilingual - his mother spoke her own first language to him until he was 4. She gave up because he had a phase of not wanting to speak her language and because she felt alone - nobody valued her first language back in ther 1970s, it is not a "commercially useful one". Like many children who only had exposure during the preschool years he lost most of the language over the course of the next few years but he retained an enviable talent for picking up other languages without much effort, and speaks two languages at native speaker standard now.

Shiny and Finally Here
The comparison with German families having an English nanny is a false one. The very reason that European children find it easy to learn English is that, in most countries, they are constantly exposed to it though TV, media and primary school. The OP's DC won't have this ongoing exposure to German.

the devil really is in the detail.
Are you planning any visits to bring the language alive? There are german bakers in London, and Windsor, how about some visits so they can try German food. It would be good for them to see some context for the language.

Very good points, and the OP really does need to think about doing all she can to create a bilingual environment, German satelite TV for start off, going to a German class to revive her own German so that she can join in in German with the children and nanny (not easy when tired after a day at work), providing books videos in German, choosing Germany or Austria for the family holiday. If she has the money she should consider putting her children in a German boarding school for a year during the later primary years. If she is aiming for bilingualism the commitment is enormous.

I think it's a great idea. Even if they don't keep the language, learning a second language benefits their brain development.

Yes I would ask her to speak 100% German. Sure there are different theories, but as much as I have read, one person-one language seems to work the best. If they figure out nanny can also speak English, of course they will take the easier way out.

www.allef.org.uk/

She may wish to consider following up with this.

The OP doesn't say she is aiming for bilingualism though (lots of people fail at that even when each parent has a different mother tongue). If the nanny speaks to the kids in German they will pick some up at the ages they are - a passive understanding at the very least within 6 months to a year, and will retain an affinity for learning languages and very likely a better attention span, improved memory, and other cognitive benefits from the additional brain connections forged by growing up in a dual language environment at an early stage of brain development.

If they figure out nanny can also speak English, of course they will take the easier way out.
Defo, which is why its best if Mum speaks German to nanny in front of kids too (even if Dad cant and why I suspect he has been opposed to it).

I just dont see Nanny agreeing. She is going to want to use the family to improve her English, not the reverse, and unlike in Germany there are plenty of other families willing to go along with this.

Agree 5moreminutes, though I suspect OP would love to achieve near bilingualism. But as you say even a compromise is good.

Interesting idea. I would be tempted to try it. My children were trilingual at that age when we lived in Germany and they attended a French school. DS (my youngest) spoke German before French after a year with a German childminder then learned French at school (we only speak English at home). They will learn German quickly if they have to speak it to their nanny, but it won't stick once she leaves unless they have another reason to speak German. My experience is that multilingual children do it because they have to - not because they think it's clever or that they can see it might be useful in the future. If my kids knew someone spoke English they would speak English to them - even now at 13 and 15 they won't speak French on demand for curious monolingual English friends because they can't see the point. When we moved back to the UK - kids still in French school - they lost their German in spite of having German friends in London. They knew these Germans spoke English (and French) so couldn't see the need to speak to them in German. That said, a few years later when my dd started learning German at school she was very quickly top of the class and apparently has a native accent so although she lost the fluency she has retained some benefits. By contrast their French has gone from strength to strength because they have been educated in French schools and we are now living in France again. My kids are bilingual through circumstances, but I have to say I think it is a great gift to bestow on them if you have the opportunity. At that age if you tell them they have to speak German to their nanny they will just accept it - that will be normal for them.

5moreminutes.Great posts. I taught English abroad, Dh taught French in England so I have knowledge both from a bilingual perspective and as an educator. Our DD understands almost everything but refuses to speak French, which is a shame.

Your children can only benefit from passively learning German. They are very young and would be a lot less likely to object to being spoken to in an incomprehensible language than 6/7/8 yr olds. I do not agree the nanny should speak English then switch once she has a relationship with the children. Preschoolers are very happy to communicate non verbally. Switching to German after a certain period is much more likely to confuse the children and possibly cause anger or anxiety in the 3 yr old.

The nanny is happy to do it - it's the children's father who isn't.

A friend of mine allowed herself to be bullied into not speaking her mother tongue to her own kids (and now it is too late as they are a bit old to start) because her DH doesn't speak it and thought my friend would have a "secret language" to talk to the children in if they learnt it - maybe a bit of that going on here with OP's DH... Of course they are equally his kids and his opinion is equally important - but how selfish to put your own tantrum about feeling left out above an opportunity for the children!

Lillian Gish
My experience is that multilingual children do it because they have to - not because they think it's clever or that they can see it might be useful in the future.
Interesting post and nail on head there. If Nanny speaks some English to them it will fail. They need to learn that life wont work well with nanny unless they speak German..
The German childminder experience your kids had was still better if she was minding other German mother tongue speakers.

My daughter is fully trilingual. one language with dad, one with me, one at school.

Full immersion, only speaking the language in question, is the answer. Children this age will pick it up so quickly.

This is all very normal on the continent, where nearly all primary school children speak at least two languages. In the uk, our language expectations are so low. As shown on this thread.

If you are serious, good for you, but ignore the 'nanny should bond in English' she definitely should not do this.

I am a language teacher.

If they forget the language later, their brain development would have been vastly improved anyway.

I wish I was bilingual and could understand all native English accents as now people think that I am a thick foreigner who doesn't want to integrate when I don't seem to understand and I ask them to repeat. They think that I don't understand the language and not other accents.

I came here to say something similar to what DragonRojo said! Even though I was older than 12 and was learning English as a foreign language. The problem was that none of us made any effort in class to answer back in English so the HT brought a native English lady. Soon we realised that since she lived in our country she could understand our language and switched into speaking back in ours So like the PP said once children are old enough to understand that they can answer back in their preferred language because it's easier for them they will do it! I remember the HT sticking her ears near the door to listen to the conversations of other classes and later telling them off for not speaking to the teacher in English and "I could hear you!!! You were speaking again in XXX!!!"

At least in you case the children will not find it hard to speak in German in a few months. As long as they realise that the nanny "doesn't speak any English". But as others have said they will forget the language if the nanny leaves.

And children don't get confused by another language! They only mix up words if they don't know the specific word in one of the languages and end up replacing it with the word in the other! I know because mine do it all the time! Basically mixing mine or DH language with English which they have no problem speaking

I remember a thread where a poster said that she got fired as an Easter European got the job as they spoke more languages (including her own, i.e. English) and this forced her to vote for a Brexit. Yes, you can bury your head in the sand and isolate a whole country and then the need to learn foreign languages will magically disappear Now with Brexit many jobs, companies and research will move to other European countries so many people will have to move there as well. I am furious that my children's primary only teaches colours and basic rubbish and not proper French with grammar and sentence forming and structure. Are only chances to get them to speak languages competently is to send them to a Grammar which is so much frowned upon on mumsnet.

OP, YADNBU in wanting your children to speak another language effortlessly but most probably YABU in disregarding your husband's objections, even if HIBU. Imagine your oldest child telling him "dad here's today's [newspaper in German]". He will be furious

If you only want her to speak German to a 3yr old and 1yr old, this is going to make her job of being a Nanny, quite a bit harder.

So I hope this will be reflected in her pay packet?

Including it in her contract would be batshit crazy. Especially if she needs to explain to your kids, why doing a certain thing would be bloody dangerous!

Marma -

I just dont see Nanny agreeing. She is going to want to use the family to improve her English, not the reverse, and unlike in Germany there are plenty of other families willing to go along with this.

Where do you read this? She could be here in the country for years and may be fluent in English because she learned it already.

I am here since 2000, while I still make a lot of grammar mistakes (I work in a semi-German environment, so use a mix of both during the day) I am fluent enough to deal with everything including my child and her friends on a daily basis and be able to hold a job even if I would move into a fully English one.

You assume the nanny came over and wants to be here to improve her English. Well, that would be more an au-pair scenario than a nanny. I don't know what the OP wants for the nanny's qualification but I could imagine she has maybe a certain level of childcare training here in the UK already.

If I overlooked something where it says differently I apologise.

The nanny is happy to do it - it's the children's father who isn't.

The OP hasnt said the nanny is 'happy' to do it, in fact I have the impression the nanny has no idea about the OPs plan, which is why I believe she will object.
Agree about DH being fearful of being left out though.

Defo, which is why its best if Mum speaks German to nanny in front of kids too

The op is not fluent in German, she has some rusty conversational German. It may be a struggle to communicate complex ideas and detailed tasks to the Nanny in a language she has only a partial understanding of.

I can see why it would appeal, but what real long term benefit will there be once the Nanny has left? A few months later they'll have lost their fluency unless they have opportunities to practice regularly. Sadly there aren't the same opportunities to immerse yourself in German language in Britain through pop music or films as there is English language in Germany.

The whole endeavour seems needlessly convuluted for no real long-term gain.

Marma It's the third sentence of the Original Post:

"Nanny said she was happy to do so during interview."

But yes, it will make her life harder. I have a 1 and 3 year olds and spend a lot of time saying 'I don't understand, say it in x language' or 'yes, daddy says x, what does mummy say?'

I agree with with danTDM As a family we are on the same boat! But you can't force your husband to do what you want either.

Coincidentally, when I did my First certificate in English exam, the comprehension part was talking about bilingual children and misconceptions. The text said something like "if we told people that our children find it hard to ride a bicycle because of their bilingualism they will believe it" And spectacularly I misunderstood it and thought that this was the case with multilingual children! Something "obviously" had eaten a part of their brain/skills I still passed the exam though

Excellent opportunity , I wish I had this when I was a child ! Go for it !

I don't think you can expect your nanny to be a language teacher.

She can teach them German phrases and songs, they can get used to hearing German spoken- that's a good way to introduce children to a language. But her speaking in German 24/7 to them when they're learning English is a bit of a tall order. And you'd have to have exclusively German nannies from now in order for it to stick.