Is life harder for unattractive people?

[CherryPicking]

I know life can be hard for lots of reasons, and that discrimination can take many forms more serious than this, but putting all other factors aside just for now, is day to day life that little bit harder for less attractive people? For example, are people less likely to be accepting of someone behaving assertively, either at work or elsewhere, if the person in question isn't easy on the eye? (I'm not much to look at myself if that makes any difference). What about things like job interviews or social situations, meeting new people?

I'm definitely not beautiful. I'm quite overweight. Goofy teeth. A weak chin. Bulgy eyes. I do think life is harder in some ways, but in other ways it's a blessing in disguise. At (my very rough) school I had to toughen up quickly and turn insults into jokey banter in order to be respected or have friends. I learned the importance of personality and social skills very early on in life.

Somehow I've ended up with an incredibly good looking man (still, now, I can't believe it). Our daughter has his genes (thank god!!!) and I'm moderately sucessful in a professional career. It's the kind of job where being physically attractive probably would get you a bit further ahead, just because of the nature of the job (health and fitness industry). But I've done reasonably well and I'm not competitive or driven enough to care about going higher than I am now.

Maybe if I was prettier I would have higher expectations for myself???

frumpet I lost 7 stone , someone pinned me down and dealt with my rampant facial hair , I had a fantastic hairstylist/colourist and make-up artist , dental work done , I could at a push look almost as good as any normalish presenter on the telly
You may well take the piss out of my perspective - but I know a huge part of attractiveness is about feeling comfortable in one's own skin - and sporting styles that don't suit are going to make anyone look awkward. I was responding to a comment up thread (I can't remember who) who basically said the best you can do is look smart and professional if you are not within the bounds of conventional attractiveness.
I disagree. I think anyone can appreciate and enjoy their looks. It doesn't require a stylist and isn't going to make someone into a conventional beauty, but it does make them more attractive.

OK, not read the whole thread but here goes: attraction is in the mind of the beholder. The initial look will be based on looks - that is what 'looks' are for - but anything beyond that will be based on an assessment of many different factors. In my (admittedly limited) experience a person's looks become secondary once you get to know someone, and have other criteria to assess them by.

That said, rich blokes seem to sometimes hook up with women who have no obvious attraction beyond their looks. That is a version of Pascal's joke.

Attraction isn't just about looks.

Plenty of beautiful are extremely unattractive.

Especially so if they consider themselves beautiful! Not a great quality. For me, anyway.

That said, rich blokes seem to sometimes hook up with women who have no obvious attraction beyond their looks

You never know. Look at that Kendra, the former Playboy model and one of Hugh Hefner's concubines. I've never watched her show, but she's outspoken, bright in her own way, has her own career, is a loving mother etc. She has a lot going for her.

The problem there is more we never get a chance to know these women because they're just an accessory, like a good tie. They don't seem to speak, has anyone else noticed that?

Especially so if they consider themselves beautiful! Not a great quality. For me, anyway.

Because false modesty, fishing for compliments and outright lying is better? Oh wait. Women are supposed to be self deprecating and hate themselves.

I'm off, this getting too much. to all the women here, you're wonderful people and that's what counts.

I feel sorry for Kendra. Classic case of her mother just being hopelessly neglectful. HH scooped her up at her most vulnerable. He is a vile beast.

I agree, Kendra a tiny bit bitchy but she's insecure. She's FUNNY though. I liked her on jungle.

No, Special. Not false modesty. Just humility. Just like beauty, it's in the eye of the beholder and I'm not attracted to people who big themselves up. Man or woman. But we are all different.

The problem there is more we never get a chance to know these women because they're just an accessory, like a good tie
I think it is the case for all women really - women are just judged on their looks for better or worse. I am just amazed at the women who are able to push through by the power of their character and ability to be really valued for who they are- seen as something other than things.

Tent my last post wasn't directed at you at all ! I could do all the things I mentioned and I still wouldn't be beautiful , but I would look a whole lot better , but other than the weight and dental work and the odd trip to the hairdresser I probably won't because I really am not that bothered

I just think that those that are beautiful always have the advantage. OK, so you feel judged on your looks, you can dress down, scrape your hair into a ponytail, wear no make up etc. And when you get home all you have to do is take out your ponytail, shake your hair out, slap on a bit of lippy and you can look in the mirror at yourself and know you look gorgeous. I know someone who dresses down for work (professional role) in glasses, boring clothes, hair off of face. She can be transformed to a head turner in 2 minutes flat.

On the other side of the coin, if you are average, you are probably dressing up, wearing make up, looking the best you can every day, so when you get home from work, you look in the mirror and that's it! Nowt you can do! As far as me, (not anyone else!) you can't polish a turd!

Surely it's an ego boost to be in the first category, it would be for me!

Especially so if they consider themselves beautiful! Not a great quality. For me, anyway

Such a strange attitude to have. Some people are beautiful. Why do people get so snippy if someone dares to say 'yes I am beautiful'? It doesn't automatically mean that they're stuck up and conceited. They're just stating a fact about something that's a fluke of nature.

Some people are just so weird when it comes to other peoples' looks.

Sorry frumpet it wasn't you. You responded to someone who made out I buy into Cosmo crap.
I gave up on women's magazines and other pedlars of women's insecurities (where possible) when I was a teenager- a long time ago.
Although I really hate the "I am doing this for me " thing in brutal TV make-overs, etc, I think everyone deserves to treat themselves to nice things that make them happy and feel good whatever they feel blessed (or not) with looks wise. There is so much propaganda out there to make people feel worthless.

I suppose bunty there is that eye of the beholder thing and if you state what is de facto beautiful you kind of trample over someone else's sense of what is beautiful. I think you can only really confidently say I conform to what is currently held culturally to be beautiful.
Model looks require that a woman is taller than average, skinnier than average and has a bonier face than average - so that the flattening affect of 2D photographs/screens is flattering. Models are prized as the ultimate female human by the media and culture so stepping out with a model is a status symbol for men. And so we are all groomed culturally to subscribe to that particular beauty standard.
When I go to a beach in summer and see the huge range of women's bodies there are- much more varied than men - I feel that we are being cheated by having such a narrow beauty standard - looking around I just think Wow! She's gorgeous, so is she, so is she... all the different proportions I didn't even realise were out there. All of those women could describe themselves as beautiful in my opinion - but they might have a hard time finding clothes that fit them right- and I don't think the media would agree with me.
Having said that I look at my cat and think she is completely objectively beautiful irrespective of time, place and culture. .. but maybe I am biased..

rich blokes seem to sometimes hook up with women who have no obvious attraction beyond their looks. That is a version of Pascal's joke.

Massive thread diversion, but I want to thank Galdos for the reference! After wading through a few pages of physics-related "one Newton per square metre = one Pascal", I found his philosophy-related thesis that our understanding of reality is determined by our experience. Paraphrasing: It's ridiculous to say "don't bow to the King, the king is just a man in fancy clothes", because those clothes indicate a man who can have me flogged if I don't bow.

Don't know what Pascal's Joke specifically is, but he seems to be saying a woman is not wrong to see beauty in a wealthy man; and he's not wrong to see loving kindness in a supermodel. Both will get what they expect.

It's not the topic of this discussion because we're talking about people who would be assessed by a large number of strangers as physically not attractive. We all understand what that means, despite the many ways you can dissect it philosophically.

we never get a chance to know these women because they're just an accessory, like a good tie. They don't seem to speak, has anyone else noticed that?

Melinda Trump looked better before she started speaking

Michelle Obama gets better looking every time she speaks!

Oh wait. Women are supposed to be self deprecating and hate themselves.

Exactly. Totally agree with Bunty & Special here. Being self-aware and self-accepting requires awareness of how other people generally experience you. Sure, there's more to it than the appearance nature gave us (fancy clothes included!) but the extent to which we match current beauty ideals is part of it.

Insisting you're not 'beautiful' doesn't make you any more attractive. In fact, if you happen to match current ideals almost perfectly, it makes you look like a needy twat.

Lots of things can make a person more/less attractive - but we can't take the credit or the blame for the underlying configuration our genes gave us. And I think it's unfair on people with fewer beauty advantages to pretend it makes no difference. Especially in our increasingly superficial culture.

all the different proportions I didn't even realise were out there :) Somebody made a good point on the bikini thread. Thanks to our climate, we don't get to see the variety, only pictures of models in bikinis!

I was considered beautiful when I was younger. Life wasn't easy as some women I worked with could be bitches to me. I was riddled with insecurities and I married a man who is considered to be not attractive and was told I could have done much better even though I fell in love with him. Horrible, shallow people. I guess life must be tougher for unattractive people but the people I admire are those who radiate an inner kindness and confidence. The lady who said she had a cleft palate was very sad.

Okay then. I conform to what is currently held culturally to be beautiful Except I'm short
But let's be honest here. If we were having this discussion in real life, around a table, can anyone truly say i wouldn't sound a pretentious twat if I actually said that. I think saying 'yes, I'm beautiful' has all the inferences of meeting cultural and societal standards of beauty. I think it's obvious what it means.
Also, why only the goof looking? Should a downright ugly person say I do not conform to what is currently held culturally to be beautiful If not, why not? Why is it different?
because society tells us women need to be ashamed and negative no matter what their lives are like. Rich, poor, pretty, wart on the tip of your nose... The point is people get uncomfortable if you're blunt. I can really win, can I? If I lowered my lashes and said 'oh, I'm average,' I'd look pathetic, like I was waiting for everyone to jump in and compliment me. Even on this thread, I've been asked to rpovide a photo, had to give a blow by blow of my partying years.

Physical appearance is one of the cruxes of feminism IMO. It's so important, and I'm really glad to be talking about it with interesting, intelligent women.

Special Well, hello....

Not all of us are women, don't forget!

Show us a picture then specail
What would you give yourself out ten? Who do you most identify with

Juries have also been found to be more lenient towards beautiful/handsome perps. UNLESS they were deemed to have used their looks (ie, confidence tricksters)

I know what specialagent means. I'm not beautiful, nowhere near it but what is the correct response (for example) to ''omg you have a great body, look at your arse in those jeans!''. Do you nod? ha ha, egregious.

Say ''really?'' ((fishing for more compliments?)

or point out some flaw to give the impression you have an insecurity even if you don't and are quite happy. There is no correct response... Even ''well, I eat well 90% of the time and work out five times a week'' sounds like a sanctimonious reprimand. Change the subject is the correct response. By the way, I've been fighting fit and I've been normal and you do get more 'breaks' when you're fighting fit.

Dutch You asked me before. I think it's obvious I'm not going to put a picture of myself on a public forum.

And your '1-10' question just proves how much this is a feminist issue.

Hello Seth >waves< I really did think you were a woman

I love on the who do you look like threads, everybody claims to look like liz hurley.

I've been told I look like Marion Cotillard and I googled her and I can see a sort of family resemblance rather than a flattering comparison. I could be her real life older sister who wasn't quite so blessed.