To think this is descending in to farce

[pleasemothermay1]

We now have to F4J guys sitting on corbyns roof

Ffs sake will the man just bloody go he's can never be elected primister it's literally somthing every day

As much as I loathe the Tories being right wing doesn't make you a fascist - and it's that kind of ridiculous rhetoric that polarises politics.

We either work with the electorate we have or stay in opposition and watch the country be destroyed. There is a happy medium between the politics of the individual that May and her ilk peddle and the unaffordable unelectable policies of Corbyn.

We have to find that road and take people with us. Otherwise we'll continue to be an utterly ineffective opposition as we are now.

*automatically make you a fascist

I am not a F4J nor Corbyn nor even Labour supporter, but I do support a change to the law to a 50/50 residence with each parent after divorce unless the parents agree otherwise or a court holds otherwise. We can still respect the best interests of the child and those cases that go to court the parents can argue over whether a 50/50 presumption should be over turned or not.

Exactly wantto

that kind of ridiculous rhetoric that polarises politics.

No it doesn't, the way people vote and our ridiculous system polarises politics (along with an inexplicable desire to ape US mudslinging).

There is a happy medium between the politics of the individual that May and her ilk peddle and the unaffordable unelectable policies of Corbyn.

No there really isn't - if you take your wish-washy media friendly Tory-lite line, you lose people like me who want actual changes. As for unaffordable - the Tories have cut everything to frickery and are still borrowing way more - and yet they are economically responsible? I'll take Corbyn any time over that, thanks.

Ok, wasonthelist, you crack on with voting for Corbyn. We'll remain in opposition and the Tories can finish the job of dismantling the NHS and the welfare state.

But hey you'll have the satisfaction of being on the moral high ground in opposition. Enjoy it while the oxygen lasts .

It's not 'Tory-lite' anymore than the Labour Party are 'commie-lite'. It's a centre-ground liberal perspective-a different perspective with different values from either of the extremes, but was certainly mirrored by some of the 'new labour' policies, which in my view was probably what got them elected. But whatever. Only time will tell.

Tories can finish the job of dismantling the NHS and the welfare state.

The only realistic chance of that stopping is a Corbyn victory - if we end up with another Blair/Brown/Millband/Jones, it'll be more PPI, more Academies (another Labour/Tory flip/flop policy), in other words, just more Thatcher; and we've all had more than enough of that.

I'll be voting for what I believe in - in the hope of it happening, rather than voting for something slightly less shitty smelling than the Tories on the grounds that it will be a marginal improvement on having more of the proper Tories.

not being a Corbynite does not make someone 'slightly less shitty smelling than a Tory'. Just someone with a different view. Anyway 'flip/flopping' was a Cameron government trait, not a Thatcher one - as an anti-thatcherite I remember 'the lady's not for turning' speech very clearly.
It's usually difficult to find a party whose policies you can believe in 100 percent, there's usually a compromise involved, so great, vote with your beliefs. I personally don't believe there is any likelihood of a Corbyn government, but as I said, time will tell.

Tories can finish the job of dismantling the NHS and the welfare state

This is one reason I hope Corbyn gets in. I literatly don't believe any one else will stop this. It's a fucking travesty what the Tories are doing to this country. It's really scaring me.

I am really sorry to disagree with a fellow anti-Thatcherite, but I cannot accept that Thatcher didn't flip flop or U-turn.

That's a rewriting of history done by her apologists.

She abandoned the monetarist policies of the early years - in spite of that daft (and factually incorrect) "the Lady's not for turning" bollocks, and she had accept defeat on Poll Tax benefits and other benefit cuts.

"April 28, 1988
LONDON, April 27— Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was forced to back down today, for the second time in two weeks, on an effort to take benefits away from the poor and the elderly.

In one of the most abrupt U-turns of her tenure, Mrs. Thatcher agreed to restore more than $180 million in housing allowances for retired people, the disabled and single parents. The money will be used to pay rent subsidies that were discontinued April 11, when the Government imposed strict controls on welfare and unemployment benefits." New York Times

There's loads more to this - but she wasn't a "conviction politician" who "stuck to her guns" - she would (and did) U-turn as much as anyone if she was forced, or regarded it as expedient - and we are very much still reaping her legacy.

Have you forgotten Gordo inviting her for tea at No10?

Thank God Corbyn is here, he can champion women's right to the child and men's right to fuck right off. How dare a man have equal access to their children, its unnatural. I know who I will be voting for.

hmm not being a Corbynite does not make someone 'slightly less shitty smelling than a Tory

And totally misrepresenting something I said doesn't mean I said it. I was just talking about my voting intentions, not anyone else's.

Wasonthelist... and where will all the money come from??? The super wealthy make up a very small proportion and are highly mobile. Tax rates are already high....now we've voted Brexit the economy is already wobbling.....
I'm not in favour of either extreme left or right policies....but regardless Corbyn has no credibility. The thought of him on the world stage is just embarrassing...even his own MPs recognise that....

Tax rates are already high Would you care to elaborate? Which tax rates are high?

OP, please explain what on earth this has to do with Corbyn's position as party leader and why this particular issue means that he won't become prime minister?

this particular issue means that he won't become prime minister?

Isn't it obvious why he will never be PM?

It's obvious why Corbyn won't be PM. What I don't understand is why OP apparently thinks this particular issue, particularly the fact that idiots are sitting on his roof, makes him unfit.

Add message | Report | Message poster WantToRunAgain Fri 05-Aug-16 17:11:44
Fatmomma, common sense said we should remain but not history and the opinion polls were too close to call.

People voted for Cameron cos he appeals to their self interest. That's what people want. That's why they don't vote for increased taxation.

I wish it were different but it's not.

so voting for corbyn to keep your welfare is not self interest 😒

No there really isn't - if you take your wish-washy media friendly Tory-lite line, you lose people like me who want actual changes.

On the other hand there are millions of us in the centre and centre left who are not Tories (who have never voted for them) but who won't vote for Corbyn. For every vote you pick up on the left with Corbyn I would bet you are losing two or three from the middle ground.

I am however sure that keen Corbyn supporters will refuse to believe this even after they lose the 2020 election by a landslide.

Personally, I think Corbyn's a good bloke generally. But no, he will never be voted PM, as he will not play the 'parliamentary' game. His parliamentary party is against him, he's like a whipped puppy at PMQs, wouldn't do the Queenie-royal stuff and will not play ball with the Murdoch press. The only labour PM to be voted in, in my living memory, is Blair who courted the Murdoch press and was besties with Rebekah Brooks. A sad state of affairs.

there are millions of us in the centre and centre left who are not Tories (who have never voted for them) but who won't vote for Corbyn. For every vote you pick up on the left with Corbyn I would bet you are losing two or three from the middle ground.

You're Tories in all but name if you were supporting Brown et al. The problem is Thatcher and Blair shifted us all so far over to the right. I've never voted Tory, but I couldn't vote Labour when they adopted all the Tory policies and added some even more right wing ones.

I've had to decide to vote for what I actually want, not for something I think might be popular but I don't want.

I like it that Corbyn doesn't play all the cynical bullshit games.

I understand that it's an easy stroke of the brush to paint all Corbyn supporters as Johnny Come Lately, naive ideologues who hate anyone and everyone who doesn't think Corbyn is the be all and end all.
I like Jeremy Corbyn. I'm not a twenty something, not on benefits, not a trustafarian SWP type. I'm an ordinary Labour Party member who's been active since the 80s. Not always a member of the party (Iraq).
I campaigned against apartheid. I learnt to Protect & Survive. I stopped eating meat. I joined unions.
I don't believe Corbyn is the messiah. I do agree with him on a lot of stuff and I agree less with the men in Raybans and nice suits. That's all.

It's weird how the Liberal Democrats aren't even discussed in these conversations - are they simply not considered a contender at all anymore?