Re: this bloody Facebook group?

[Rozdeek]

Am on this fb group whose philosophy is "attachment" parenting based. I do a lot of attachment parenting things myself but just cos I like them - I hate parenting labels.

Anyway today this poor woman has posted asking for advice on how to stop co sleeping as she is knackered and wants her evening back as baby won't sleep without her there and wakes up when she goes. Baby is 15 months. I think this is fair enough. No. Instead of helpful advice, or sympathy, she just gets loads of stuff along the lines of "why would you want to stop co sleeping?" and people insinuating she is selfish for wanting time to herself.

Someone else posts asking for advice on "natural" teething remedies as she doesn't like using calpol. Cue loads of people saying to try Amber teething bracelets . Yes. Let's put a choking hazard on my baby. That's much better than a small dose of paracetamol.

I do follow a lot of attachment parenting methods but I cannot buy into the above load of crap. I also hate that "co sleep/wear a sling" appear to be solutions to all problems. My baby hates both of these.

AIBU?

I have de joined said fb group before anyone jumps on that one.

philo you would have saved yourself a lot of money as formula isn't cheap. Also a lot of time waiting for bottles to cool down/warm up. You wouldn't have the panic of forgetting to pack formula when you went out or if you stayed out longer than expected. No panics on holiday when you can't find formula or safe water to mix it, or having to sip it at the airport to prove it wasn't poison. You wouldn't have necessarily avoided mastitis and you would have the pain of engorgement as you stopped/didn't start breast feeding.

There may also be benefits to breast feeding that just haven't been proved yet.

We don't need the money and as a SAHM I am not exactly short of time. I don't think short term convenience on holiday is a great benefit tbh.

Well I'm fascinated... And horrified.

So all those sodding hours I put in bfing DS, being made to feel incompetent by my horrible HV, with D's throwing up the whole time, keeping little down, might all have been solved if I had gone on to formula sooner? I did so because I was told that they inherited your immune system and would be free of infection for about six weeks and that it was better for them... As DS got a fever within three weeks ( HV, he can't have, and if he has it's because you're not feeding him properly) , didn't grow ( HV, you're not doing it properly) and threw up the whole time, literally (HV, well I can't see what you're doing wrong but you must be) combined with no do not go on to formula, I am gobsmacked and bitter...

enchanted

I had similar, though stopped sooner because my mental health began to suffer due to the stress I felt having a conveyer belt of midwives coming in telling me the baby wasn't doing well enough.

Anybody who tries to tell you that you did the wrong thing/made the wrong choice is an arsehole.

Orlanda

There are many Health Visitors out there who don't know their arse from their elbow if baby in question isn't going "by the book".

I had one such HV and made a formal complaint against her.

She has since had her first child and I hope she now has rather more empathy with recently post partum mothers than she did this time last year.

I had similar experiences. DD had a tongue tie that really inhibited a good latch. She lost a lot of weight in the first two week and only started to gain once we began mixed feeding. I felt very guilty about that to begin with. But I then realised that I couldn't help my daughter by doing what made me feel the least guilty. She began to put of weight steadily and we still mostly breast fed until recently- she is six months and such a massive fidget that we can't complete a feed anymore. I get simultaneously smacked in the face, kicked and head butted in the boob. Having to physically restrain her while she feeds doesn't do much for my bonding experience!

cosmic

That sounds very similar to my dd - not exactly the way I always dreamed of feeding! She does have a slight tongue tie too, but as it's only a little they have never thought that to be the issue so have never cut it.

alvis

Thank you, sorry you have experienced similar. I did get awful anxiety regarding her feeding, which really put a cloud over a lot of the early days for me. Since mixed feeding I'm feeling a lot better on myself, although I still feel the need to write down all of her feeds to keep an eye on just in case, even now.

Didn't BF DS1 as he's not my biological child. BFed my twins for years, I was very lucky that BFing was a breeze for me.

If I ever have another child, it'll be formula from day one. Anyone comments to me on the street? I'll just shrug and tell them to bugger off. I honestly don't care what these psycho women think. IMO breastfeeding is their only success/accomplishment so they grab onto it and harass and sneer at other women. Otherwise they'd just be supportive like Mrs DV or some of the BF support women on here (sorry can't remember all the names!) and not cruel.

So any women here who couldn't breastfeed Don't let these saddos get to you.They're just bitter losers bullying other women because they have zero other things to be proud of in their lives. Just ignre them!

I bf until about 4.5 months when ds got four teeth. When the hv asked if I was still bf I said I was moving on to ff because my little bundle of joy would bite down to tell me he had finished. She said to persevere and take the boob away and when I explained that it made no difference because he had finished she just said I had to persevere. I lived in fear of feeds until I realised how ridiculous it was to be like that. It wasn't the way to be and I shouldn't be scared of feeding my baby.

HVs are our biggest bane in our area. They do nothing to help mothers who want to BF and have put more than enough off it altogether.

I was threatened with SS after I refused to FF my eldest as although she was small (low birth weight) she was gaining but not enough for the HV. I self referred to paediatrics to ensure I was doing the right thing then both me and the paediatrician made formal complaints about her threats. I was lucky in that I had the strength to see that through, a lot of the mothers I see as part of my groups and 1-1 support don't have that strength so would have been crushed by her attitude.

Agreed that health visitors aren't helpful. Mine made me feel that DDs weight issues were my fault. She said my milk quality was affected by my leaving the house to go to baby groups and I should stay home all day to make sure I was producing better milk. DD was 10 weeks at this point and her weight gain was still slow on mostly BF.

The issue with breast feeding advice is that there is no clear cut research so advice is often anecdotal and based on opinion. This isn't really helpful when mothers are looking for answers. Especially if the advice giver is convinced that their way is the only way. 'Well it worked for me' is the most unhelpful phrase in existence.
I would argue that BF support should only be given by those who actually struggled to BF.

cosmic that is the biggest load of nonsense I have ever heard - from the HV - not you. I really don't know why they don't receive better training.

Interestingly it was paediatrics that supported me when I complained about my doctor. Despite the fact that there seems to be no real benefit to breastfeeding - other than financial and time - they were keen that I continued.

Can someone please explain this whole co-sleeping thing to me?

All over the internet I see "ït's best for baby" and what not, in real life every health care professional and child related government agency/charity in my country (not the UK) are working their asses off to stop people from cosleeping due to the massively increased risk of SUDI.

Every time we see the midwife, doctor or plunket safe sleep is discussed, and the first thing mentioned is bubs having their own bed. Keeping them in your room is encouraged, but cosleeping seems to be equated to dangling them over a pit of vipers. The government is even paying out to provide those who insist on co sleeping with pods so the baby has their own bed within your bed.

Why does the internet of crunchy mums seem to have the polar oposite view? Are the same safe sleep guidelines used in the UK?

PS. Pacifiers have also been shown in studies to be linked to a lower incidence of SUDI, but due to a lack of clear evidence regarding causation/correlation and the public view of pacifiers as evil current government guidelines don't reccomend them unless other risk factors (such as cosleeping) are present.

kaos

When done correctly co sleeping is actually extremely safe.

I don't like doing it though but that's cos I like my space.

Kaos. The problem is the way the data is collected. Deaths from sleeping happen. They tend to happen when certain parameters are met. For example, a parent has been drinking or smoking, is under medication or sleeps very heavily. They also lump together all incidences where people have slept say on the sofa after falling asleep feeding. So that skews the numbers. HCPs cannot recommend anything that doesn't have a solid data set behind it, that would be irresponsible.
For a healthy full term baby in a non smoking household, co sleeping appears safe IF you do it right - firm surface, no covers near them, etc etc. The idea is that you sleep very lightly and are aware of them. This has certainly been my (totally anecdotal) experience - I naturally formed a curved shape around him and wake if he moves. A Bf baby eventually gets the hang of rolling in for some boob then going back to sleep without really waking up. For me, with a baby who wakes constantly, it was a life saver. Instead of hauling him out of his cot, feeding him and being terrified id drop him/ fall asleep feeding because I was so damn tired, I just let him sleep next to me and he can feed and we barely wake.
It's not for everyone, but I do think for some families it works very well.
I presume you're in NZ? Not sure if there are different guidelines out there but they do tend to err on the side of caution.

We are cosleepers and I have done a lot of research on how to do it safely or as safe as possible.

I do think that there is a bit of a "class" issue here because other things which go against SIDS guidelines are frowned on but because lots of crunchy middle class types like to cosleep it is seen as OK.

Dummies I find fascinating because research has shown that they can reduce SIDS and yet crunchy types are against them.

I think lots of parents use a bednest or similar to "cosleep" with minimal risk. I have co slept with one in the bed and one in a bednest.

We had a bednest when he was tiny. Now he's big enough to kick both of us out of the way (tiny bedhog) we don't bother...bednest sate great - we used ours a lot

Agree with phil that there's a lass issue here. Dummies are seen as being lower class. I have zero beef with dummies, I only wish ds would have taken one. He's a sucky baby but refused all dummies (sigh...)
The class thing is depressing- think about those 'off grid' parents in the news the other week. They get away with it because they're middle class. If you're on a council estate and not taking your kids to the doctor you can bet ss would be knocking. Total double standard.

philo

I reckon that's because dummies are often seen as "chavvy"

We co slept using a bed nest, personally wouldn't have wanted to do it in the bed but that's just me rather than because of any risk factors.

People are so snobby about dummies it's unreal.

Dd loved her dummy. Ds refused to take one despite our best effort. Wish he did because he would have settled so much easier at his most distressed.

But you can't force them to take one.

People need to stop snubbing dummies. The are a useful parenting tool

My DS loves his. It has been a life saver.

I think the reason people are snobbish/snub dummies is not so much down to babies having them but 3/4/5 year olds still sucking on one.

Perhaps but some people try to take them away too early because of "what people think"

We don't rush potty training, we don't take away comfort toys or special blankets but dummy's are fair game

True. Was chatting with dh about what we would do differently if we have another and he said 'take a dummy to the hospital with us.'
Ds spent the first few hours of his life sucking furiously on dh's fingers as I was being sorted after my c section. Won't take a dummy, we've tried every type we can find....