AIBU to not give consent to a trip to the US for my DS with his dad?

[arewenearlythereyet]

I have not posted for a very long time, but I could do with some other views. My ex wants to take my DS (aged 10) to the US and return on the day that I am booked to go camping with DS. He has not booked the holiday yet, the camping holiday in Wales has been booked for months for 29th August, with other mums from school. My ds is going on the Monday with my friends, I am joining them on Tuesday as I have a wedding, my bf daughter. Ds is very excited about the holiday, chose to go on the Monday rather than come to the wedding. My ex says that this is the cheapest week to go to the US, financially we are worlds apart, the camping trip is as much as I can afford, but I offered to pay the difference in flights for his trip if he went the week before as I really do not want DS to be jet lagged on our camping trip. On top of this DS has said that he does not actually want to go to the US, they went last year and he's not bothered about going again. We have reached an impasse, where I finally said I do not give my consent for him to go. AIBU?

Exactly whois - it's fine if you can sleep on a plane, but many of us can't. DS never sleeps much on the flight and is fine the next day, but then sleeps soundly for 12-13 hrs the next night which is hard to do in a tent, with your pal, on a sleeping bed and with the sun streaming in.

DH used to be insufferably smug about jetlag - he slept ok on the flight and seemed to regard it as some moral weakness of mine to be tired until our last flight where we had a screaming baby behind us the whole flight. Suddenly he had a lot more empathy for it. Equally when relatives have come over from the US they generally need a 2-3 hr nap in the afternoon when they arrive.

Anyway slightly off point. OP I'm glad your ex is looking at flights a day earlier, that seems the most sensible solution as he won't do the more obvious ones of planning holidays in advance, or going somewhere closer for a week.

If your son has your husbands surname he isn't going to be asked if he has your consent as he doesn't need it. The US are only interested if there are warning signs or an alert issued about a specific child. Some other countries especially those with child kidnapping issues or laws which give a father full control (and mothers none) are a different matter. Both my ex and I have frequently travelled to the US with our son, neither of us have ever been asked a single question about the other parent or consent.

Compromise is the name of the game with separated families unfortunately. This one seems like a fairly easy one to compromise on. He goes to the US and gets a week holiday with his Dad, then comes back and gets a holiday with Mum and friends, just missing one night. It does sound a bit silly, from an outsider's perspective, that he wouldn't do both.

Sounds like ex is trying to compromise by looking for an earlier flight back.

I think somethings got lost in the wash here
The holiday with you and friends arewenearlythereyet is booked and a fixed point
but - people are getting on your back because they see that as adaptable , because of the type of holiday it is, because thats what you can afford

whilst his - which as you have rightly pointed out isn’t even booked yet - and so is truly adaptable - is seen as being fixed
that’s prejudicial thinking because of cost and location - there is no way to describe that otherwise.
If you had booked a holiday to Australia that was the holiday of a lifetime - that had cost 5 times as much as his - and you were clearly at risk of missing the flights / connections - rare time with family and friends - and so on..
then people would react quite differently

Just because its in a field in a tent doesn’t make it any less precious and special - and well done you you little lad for knowing this.

The attempt to reduce the day of the start of his holiday to a partial day and all of the failure to be packed - ready physically and emotionally - and having a child in a fit state to go at the right time will shift to you -
it wont fall to the child or father..how is that fair ?

I suspect the sticking point is that the drop in fares to the US usually falls just short of two weeks before the kids go back to school . If the first day of the distinctly cheaper fare is what is forcing the issue it is valid. My fare difference was £200 pp and for most people £400 is a goodly sum. Even if Mum has offered to pay the son's extra (say) £200 it still leaves Dad another £200 out because Mum thinks DS's night with a friend is more of a priority than a week with Dad. Not many parents would take that well and many would see it that way.

Beast the reason for the sleepover is because Mum has a wedding that day so the packing etc would presumably need to be done beforehand regardless . Not sure how much emotional preparation is needed for a camping trip though 😀

trafalgargal re "If Mum doesn't consider attendance on the first night of the holiday important for herself .....then why is it so important for her son?"

Read the thread, mum is going to bf's daughters wedding, so given choice what to do, chose camping trip, dad asked about taking son to camping trip and agreed to son going without mum and with friends (and adult/s).

The only person who does not seem to see the value of the camping trip is dad who desires to run rough shod over the plans with his own 'late to the party' plans.

It's immaterial which one is mum and which is dad. One parent made plans and agreed them, the other wants to change, at short notice and stick a spanner in the works.

having said it is immaterial notice that dad is at the centre of things, even when he has already agree to something... e.g. "If Mum really wanted this to work and the missing the camping with pal element is key, could another nights camping for the two of them not be arranged for another time in the holidays or even tagged onto the end of this holiday rather than the beginning." So mum and son and another family need to re-arrange so dad can take son on a trip he doesn't want to go on! Poor old dad, can no one think of his needs!

re "If your son has your husbands surname he isn't going to be asked if he has your consent as he doesn't need it." This is not about who has a right to do what it is about what is best for the son! is the dad really going to feel happy if he spoiled the kids trip but got his way!! is that what parenting is about?

OP have you asked your ex why he wants to do this, the son doesn't want to go back to USA, why doesn't the dad do a USA holiday and have a simpler, perhaps more kid friendly holiday at a suitable time?

rook re "just to keep things smooth." totally agree, very sad. OP sounds amazing.

Are re "How much choice a 10yo should have is situation dependent and as has been pointed out on here they don't always make good choices (I'm not sure any of us can claim that we do even as adults). There never has been any question of refusing contact. Discussions are ongoing, ex is looking at flights that return the day before now."

That is great news. Sounds also like your ex is really steaming ahead with a trip your son has said he does not want to go on! An honest discussion about what ds might like to do (and father like to do too) could be so much better. But moving things back one day would certainly make hings easier. Well done.

Son isn't travelling with Mum with the original plan anyway but travelling with friends as she is essentially arriving a day later than the rest of the group. The sleepover is at the camping holiday location.
Mum would need to transport son herself if Dad takes him on holiday.

it still leaves Dad another £200 out because Mum thinks DS's night with a friend is more of a priority than a week with Dad.

Dad's not out anything, because nothing has been booked. The son has a standing prior commitment. If it were a foreign holiday, there wouldn't be any suggestion of not going! But because it's "just camping" its seen as ok to trample all over.

The OP has had her holiday booked for months! This is about the ex jeopardising his good relationship with his son and his son's mother by insisting on an arrangement that hasn't been booked yet and could easily be varied. OP said money wasn't an issue for him, and even if it was she's offered to pay the difference. She has made compromises, he hasn't. Why are so many posters down on her?

"Mum thinks DS's night with a friend is more of a priority than a week with Dad. Not many parents would take that well and many would see it that way."

No, son thinks it is more important, dad just wants to do what dad wants to do!

Must go out, will look forward to hearing it is all sorted soon. I do think your ex would benefit in the future from thinking about what your son wants, (you and his son, I mean) he clearly isn't thinking of this at moment and in the long run getting on the side of his own son would help him - IMHO.

you and his son = your joint son!!! I mean.

Italiangreyhound - the question is that it should not alter the existing plans

OP has said the father cant go earlier as she has asked him to yes existing plans should change. OP has said he can go and he can afford it but that's her opinion not the fathers so I will take it with a pinch of salt given we don't have both sides of the story.

Is there a reason why your ex wants to go back to the same place in the US? Does he have family there or something?

So the lesson I'm learning from this is that DCs of divorcees don't have the right of anticipation as whatever is planned could be snatched away from them dependant on whim of one or other parent. And yes some could see this as melodramatic, but to me that's what it boils down to - if the DF had gone ahead with his original last minute half arsed plans then the DS had the choice of being exhausted for his first night away that he'd been looking forward to for ages, or missing out on it altogether.

It sounds like the DS is looking forward to this - has been for months. Great that the DF has finally got his ass in gear and decided to book a holiday, but really does that trump everything?

Plus the DF hasn't paid a penny yet and as I said upthread if he'd booked the flights in advance like most normal people with DCs in school holidays do, particularly if there are shared custody arrangements to work with, then either he wouldn't be in this situation, or he could have got a different week for the same price.

OP I really hope that your ds dad organise something the day before.

As far as I can see, you have your ds from let's say Friday fur a week. You have organised something months in advance. It doesnt matter what it is. The first step should be for your ds dad to work around it.
So bringing your ds on the day he is going away isn't acceptable. What if the trip is planned for going away in the am but the plane, arriving back home etc is in the pm, early evening for example?
Then his choice of trip should for his budget and the time constrains.
Yes it's normal to swap/make other arrangements etc, but it is a bit cheap to ask for that 2 weeks before when the other parent has organised everything for months. And the other parent duesntbhavr to say YES either....

"yes existing plans should change"

Why?

Your son doesn't want to go to the US again. That should be the end of that.

it is not unreasonable to write back and say that ds has plans for that week. he is going on holiday on Monday. say that dad is welcome to take him another week or come back earlier. that way you are not stopping him going, just not when it effects ds's plans. that is not unreasonable.

peggyundercrackers whether he can afford the extra cost of going another week or not is neither here nor there as the OP has offered to pay the difference

Just to clarify, the refuse consent comment was about consent between us as parents, not about a court order

The family court is there to intervene when parents can't agree.
"Refusing consent" does not imply a flexible position on your part.
You leave your ex no choice but to either concede to your way or ask a court to decide.

When one parent demands that things are done their way, they often find themselves facing a court judgement eventually.

A holiday booked well in advance overrides a holiday that isnt even booked! Plus the fact her ds doesnt want to go as he is spending a night with his friends that he is looking forward to so the dad should ammend his plans

Piratefairy45 - The US is a big place. Whilst I'm totally on the side of the Op in terms of agreeing suitable dates, I don't think a 10 year old should get to veto an entire country. Otherwise we'd never be allowed to go to France again - too many castles apparently .

WTF are you on about, passive?
Read the thread properly, why don't you?

The dad is being an arse claiming this is the only time he can "afford" to take his son on holiday because end of August is cheaper for flights.

Because of this he will be losing one day of his camping holiday with his friends, the exciting day without his mum being there.

The dad needs to stop being an arse and take his son on a holiday he can afford in a reasonable week.

And my kids slept for 1 hour on the whole overnight flights back from america. They were knackered.

He can't guarantee that your dd will be back in time to go on the camping trip, because his travel depends totally on things outside his control; namely air travel.