Re: expectations of adult son

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I genuinely don't know. He is 20 and home from uni. Mil lives with us as she can barely stand without her zimmer. She doesn't need any personal care but we do all her meals, drinks and tablets. We don't use carers but have 3 older children, all of whom have finished college etc and between us we manage. I don't think its unreasonable to say to any of them you do nans lunch as you are at home anyway (to whoever - probably shared evenly). One of us nips home if they all have plans. I nearly always do the evening meal, dh does breakfast it usually lunch n doesnt have to be elaborate. That's all - no care, a basic meal, a drink n take tablets from a nomad n put them on her table. Don't expect them to stay home but do it when they are in anyway. We are all except eldest son going away for a fortnight shortly. He has a holiday job but the plan was always he was taking 2 weeks off, looking after Nan , dogs n other pets n getting paid for it. Sightly less than his wages but he was happy as not exactly hard work. Would also involve washing her clothes n probably other minor jobs but thats all. Much easier than his job n she didn't want carers coming in. Today though things have deteriorated to such an extent that I don't even trust him to feed the animal's. Twice this week have come home to her in tears. He burnt her lunch the other day, forgot it was in the oven, went back upstairs n then told her to stop whinging when she said it was inedible.
Similar thing today. Boiled a pan of soup almost dry, then left her to shoot back upstairs n she smashed the dish as he ignored her shouting him to take it away n get her tablets.
Aibu unreasonable to think he lives here rent free, we help him out (and so does she with an allowance) at uni? These aren't horrible strenuous chores n he can't even manage them. We are going away in 2 weeks and now having to source very expensive care (which she really didn't want) and to be honest I don't even trust him to feed the pets. I have visions of him forgetting the fish n Guinea pigs and dread what we might come home too. Am going to have to ask someone to have them. Money isn't the main issue, she has had carers before and didn't like it. To be honest I am livid with him
I feel like telling him to pay board himself now. I feel like he needs a dose of reality n we mollycoddle him. If he can help out, even when he is being paid then why should we sub him? It costs me a fortune when he us home especially in food. Aibu?

As an aside -do you honestly take university age children on holiday with you? He either goes with his mates or goes to festivals instead. His choice. As an older adult I do now holiday with my parents but as I young adult I couldn't wait to do my own thing?

God yes. Free holiday somewhere nicer than I could afford? Nice food? Sunshine? Hell yeah!

Could Nan be dementing? 'Cantankerous' behaviour is often the start of one of the dementias e.g. Front-temporal Dementia or Dementia with Lewy Bodies. I would get professional carers in while you are away because you are not going to reform his behaviour in the next couple of weeks, are you? If you don't, you'll be on tenterhooks. That allowance Nan pays your stepson could go towards the cost of the carers. Whatever, your stepson needs a kick up the arse! Charge him board and tell him if he doesn't want to pay, hit the road Jack! We all need to get real at some point and this is his opportunity!

You were going to pay him as he would lose out from his job.Pretty dreadful at 20 not to be able to heat some soup even. Maybe washing her knickers a bit unreasonable but everything else seems fair enough.

One minute she's smashing bowls and shouting, the next she's dropping them on the way to the sink, one minute she's cantankerous and slagging everyone off but then you quickly add that "she's not like it all the time". You need to decide which it is. To me it sounds as though you are trying to justify why you should still be aiming to take this break (which everyone deserves by the way I fully agree) by any means necessary when clearly there issues that need desperate attention. I happen to agree with nemo with regards to the dementia theory with your MIL as a carer myself it does sound very much that way, however I do think you are minimising what your son's role in all this would really be, it would be far more than just a few meals and light housework, it would be 24/7 care as presumably they will be under the same roof he will be having a degree of responsibility for her! I agree with PP who said that someone who requires a frame for even the simplest standing/walking would, IMPO, be very unlikely to get herself up washed and dressed without some help. Perhaps you like to believe that she can do all this without help, perhaps she wants to believe it too, but in doing that are her needs really being met living with you as you say she has declined in the past however many weeks/months? I'm not suggesting that you would purposely not meet her needs but it's very plausible that she needs more help on a daily basis than you realise and that she wants to admit. That's not your fault at all but needs to be considered. I think you have two options, you either bring the professionals in or you stay at home and care for her as a family as you have been doing and replan your holiday with more organisation for another time. I certainly don't think it is the place of a young college lad to be providing care. Of course I'm sure he leapt at the chance to stay off of actual work to look after his nan even at a lower wage and no doubt thought it would be a quick slap dash job of bunging food in the micro, fixing a drink and running the hoover round, he probably didn't realise how difficult it would be and that they may not see eye to eye, but as any carer will tell you the job no matter how big or small is far from easy, especially for someone with no experience who can't cook a pan of soup. I think the way he has spoken to her is quite shocking however his age is the main factor here, I think he has gotten a lot of grief on here when I dont think you should be relying on him in the first place for such a large task. By all means insist that he helps out and earns his keep or pays rent that's all up to you, but I would step away from the idea of him being carer while you go on holiday.

And also, with you not being there for however many weeks, and your son being the only other person available, what would happen if very suddenly nans toileting or personal care needs changed and she needed help to wash, dress, or clean herself after the toilet? She would either have to go without or ask your son and i suspect it's more likely to be the former. Just something to consider before you make the cheaper more convenient choice of leaving him as chief carer. It's very expensive and hard to arrange professional care at the very last minute if this was to happen. Which I honestly hope it wouldn't

I completely agree with Mynameisdominoharvey

Your mil sounds like she needs a lot more care and you are minimising her behaviour and the affect it is having on yourself and your family.

My dm has dementure and it's exhausting for us but particularly my dad. They can be very selfish and self centred and impossible to please.

Not everyone can care. It's not possible for some folk. Your step son does sound immature and I would tell him it's fine that he can't seem to look after her but you will use the money you were going to give him to pay carers.

And another thing you sound very tired op. Caring can be exhausting. My dm didn't like having carers in either but there comes a time that it's necessary for your health.

You sometimes have to insist.

To add with or without dementure her actions of plate smashing and being unkind to your step dd are unpleasant and hard to cope with.

Be very careful op again that you are not minimising the affect your mil is having on you and in your family dynamics.

Could Nan be dementing?

I have asked the op she said no but has said her mil has been referred to a memory clinic.

She doesn't want to seem to acknowledge it any further than that. The behaviour she is displaying sound very much like my grandad. Which is why I won't condemn the Ds, like some others. He side is that it didn't happen.

I do think he needs to be doing more I general more in general and paying rent. But I think the care problem is as clear cut as some are making out. It isn't even clear if he did say anything 'mean' to her.

Poor you and what a shame for the elderly lady, this is abuse, and if he worked for me would be disciplined then sacked for this, maybe next year when he has no income from her he might realise how lucky he was, cherish the elderly.

Memory clinic referral is the starting point for a diagnosis of altzimers.

My dm was diagnosed by the memory clinic.

I sgree he may need to do more or at least be more pleasent in the house but I think the op is minimising both the care she gives her mil and the affect her mil has on the other members of the house.

cameron

Elderly people can be abusive too.
They can lie and cause trouble. They can enjoy playing one relative off against another and play the victim.

As a district nurse I saw that Fairly regularly.

Not saying it's the case here but it's always best to keep an open mind.

Another ex district nurse who saw how manipulative elderly people can be. Refusing carers and expecting family to see to them (usually due to reluctance to pay). If you and your DH have chosen to take on that role, great. But it isn't fair to expect your children to step into the breach whilst you go away. Does a sense of duty run in your family?
Having said that, he does sound like he needs a dose of reality re paying board. And common decency, cups of tea etc whilst you're around is fair enough. Maybe the allowance she gives him could be used to outsource help to make your lives a bit easier day to day, gardener, cleaner etc. It's your house at the end of the day. What your DM wants isn't the be all and end all.

Absolutely spot on CPtart

this is abuse, and if he worked for me would be disciplined then sacked for this

No. This is a college lad who thought he was joking around with his nan when he (very inappropriately might I add) told her to stop whingeing, and, very obviously, is forgetful when cooking and like many lads his age most likely felt that the food was perfectly fine for nan without asking her opinion and preferences first. People like you who are far too quick to use words like "abuse" and "safeguarding" the second someone makes a mistake are the reason why people either won't consider care as a career or don't last in the job when they do! I'm a full time carer for adults with learning disabilities so I am more than aware of what constitutes abuse and I'm rather shocked that you have accused this young man of it, especially considering his mother's vague and flakey accounts of what has or has not happened depending on which suits her....I pity your employees, and suggest you do some research on employment law before you yourself make a mistake, a costly one.

Cameron, that is utter bullshit.

CPtart and mynameis have it spot on here.

YANBU my sister just turned 20 and still lives at home ( i live with my partner but pay rent to help my mum out and for using my room as storage). My sister works full time and also pays rent to my mum.

My partner and i went on holiday for 2 weeks with my parents and my sister actually took time off work to care for the dogs.

So she wasn't paid and still did it and she's the same age as your son, she didn't have to look after a grandparent but my dog was almost decapitated at the groomers and had staples in his neck so he required a lot of special attention and care which she was happy to do.

Sounds to me like your son is a bit resentful at you all going on holiday and taking it out on his gran.

Definitely tell him that he has 3 options 1) pulls his weight and helps out without being paid
2)starts paying rent
3) moves out and does everything for himself, including all bills.

Bit of spoilt brat syndrome tbh.

Louise, you are comparing apples and pears.

It is in no way the same thing.

A demanding and cantankerous elderly relative who puts the knife into people behind their backs is in no way comparable.

I really wish people would read the thread

Hi. Have got an agency coming to do an assessment. I was thinking carers for morning and lunch and asking him to cook her evening meal when he does his own. I can leave frozen meals etc. Otherwise the carer will be there whilst he is cooking his evening meal too so might be a bit awkward.
I didnt think I was minimising her needs but maybe I am. Yesterday - typical day, up about 8, made her breakfast, cuppa and tablets. Got herself dressed, washed etc. I did her washing n changed bedding (not a daily thing). Sandwich for lunch as I had to go out. I could tell it wasn't an ideal choice (usually cooked lunch) and she had a bit of a moan to dd about it. Left her watching TV with a cake , cuppa and her tablets. She needs help with showering but wouldn't have expected him to to this and just manage with washes until we get back. Hairdresser comes every week.
I was out most of the afternoon . Dss was around. Told her to shout him if she went for a lay down to close patio doors which she can't do as they open out. Someone had to be in for that but they were only open due to the heat. If not she would have been fine on her own.
Came back, made her cooked dinner, cuppa and tablets. She watched TV (main pastime) and went to bed about 8. Got herself undressed and into bed. Took her evening tablets and another cuppa. That is more or less a typical day. I also iron her clothes but wouldn't have expected him to. He would also need to feed and walk the dogs and feed other pets. He will have to do some shopping over the fortnight as well.
This wasn't being forced on him he wanted to do it as I think he thought (naively on all our parts) that it was easier than working. This wasn't some 'Cinderella' type situation he had been forced into although obviously feel free to draw your own conclusions. He chooses not to come on on holiday with us but no I didn't envisage taking adult children away with us. Would never tell them they couldn't but just thought they would reach an age where they wouldn't want to and prefer their independence. I know I did.
The house has been adapted for her, handrails, toilet seat etc and she manages to move around with her zimmer. She occasionally makes herself half a cup of tea (she can't carry a full cup) but to be honest I have no idea how she manages to carry it to her chair.
She has been referred to the memory clinic as she scored just below the indicator on the memory test they do.
I hadn't accounted for a sudden change in needs but will discuss it with the agency.
I am more annnoyed as he really doesn't pull his weight. The others all help out but while he was working full days I didn't mind as much. He now only works 4 hours (wont go into that one) so do expect him to help out in the house. I don't give them specific chores but they do know what needs doing during the day if I'm not in, Nans lunch, dog walking and keeping the kitchen clean is pots in dishwasher, sides wiped etc. They are capable of negotiating who does what.

I don't think you forced him. I think it is naivety.

How was she meant to shower for 2 weeks if she needs help, and you didn't expect him to do that?

Her needs are clearly far more complex than you put in the op. That makes it hard to comment. I stand by the fact that your mils version may not be accurate and still wonder why the assumption is that she is right and it's not a indicator that all isn't well with her.

Yes he needs to contribute to the general house more.

But I think you have all being playing down your mils care needs. Hopefully the assessment and the memory clinic makes it clear to all of you.

You cannot compare looking after a dog with looking after an elderly relative with possible dementia. We have a relative who we love but can be very difficult to care for. He can be particularly difficult with one relative who does a lot of the caring.

She needs help with showering but wouldn't have expected him to to this and just manage with washes until we get back.

You would have left her without a shower for two weeks? Just a quick wash in the sink?

See I still think you are so used to doing what you do that you are minimising the care she needs. In addition she sounds fairly challenging. You mentioned she smashed a plate and is mean to your step daughter. (Think you said that but apologies if not)

I agree your son needs to do more in the house and be pleasent but I expect he didn't quite realise the commitment he was agreeing to.

louise comparing looking after a dog to caring for an elderly person who may have dementure and has physical needs is frankly ridiculous.

Op again I help look after my dm and as an ex district nurse I see how carers minimise the hours they spend caring and carers who expect other relatives to step up to the plate when some clearly can't do this.

Your lad is 20 so same ages as my 4 kids. 2 would be more than capable of doing what you do and 2 most defiantly wouldn't.

It's not necessarily lazy or unkind it's just different characters and strengths.

Yes your words were cantankerous/mean to live with/she loves getting him into trouble

Shit op have you really really looked st this situation?

Sounds to me like your mil is pulling all your strings.

Seen this time and again and often these people don't like carers from outside as they don't put up with this nonsense.

Really don't be so quick to believe a woman who you describe as above.

You would have left her without a shower for two weeks? Just a quick wash in the sink?

My thoughts exactly. I'm sorry OP but that's not acceptable, would you go two weeks without a shower? You can only get so clean standing at a sink, and not showering for two weeks could lead to all sorts of problems for nan. A bath or a shower once to twice a week and a wash on the other days would be more appropriate especially in the heat we have been having lately.