Re: expectations of adult son

[Tink06]

I genuinely don't know. He is 20 and home from uni. Mil lives with us as she can barely stand without her zimmer. She doesn't need any personal care but we do all her meals, drinks and tablets. We don't use carers but have 3 older children, all of whom have finished college etc and between us we manage. I don't think its unreasonable to say to any of them you do nans lunch as you are at home anyway (to whoever - probably shared evenly). One of us nips home if they all have plans. I nearly always do the evening meal, dh does breakfast it usually lunch n doesnt have to be elaborate. That's all - no care, a basic meal, a drink n take tablets from a nomad n put them on her table. Don't expect them to stay home but do it when they are in anyway. We are all except eldest son going away for a fortnight shortly. He has a holiday job but the plan was always he was taking 2 weeks off, looking after Nan , dogs n other pets n getting paid for it. Sightly less than his wages but he was happy as not exactly hard work. Would also involve washing her clothes n probably other minor jobs but thats all. Much easier than his job n she didn't want carers coming in. Today though things have deteriorated to such an extent that I don't even trust him to feed the animal's. Twice this week have come home to her in tears. He burnt her lunch the other day, forgot it was in the oven, went back upstairs n then told her to stop whinging when she said it was inedible.
Similar thing today. Boiled a pan of soup almost dry, then left her to shoot back upstairs n she smashed the dish as he ignored her shouting him to take it away n get her tablets.
Aibu unreasonable to think he lives here rent free, we help him out (and so does she with an allowance) at uni? These aren't horrible strenuous chores n he can't even manage them. We are going away in 2 weeks and now having to source very expensive care (which she really didn't want) and to be honest I don't even trust him to feed the pets. I have visions of him forgetting the fish n Guinea pigs and dread what we might come home too. Am going to have to ask someone to have them. Money isn't the main issue, she has had carers before and didn't like it. To be honest I am livid with him
I feel like telling him to pay board himself now. I feel like he needs a dose of reality n we mollycoddle him. If he can help out, even when he is being paid then why should we sub him? It costs me a fortune when he us home especially in food. Aibu?

It sounds like there are two sides to this story.

Yes your DS may have forgotten things and the food may not have been perfect, but you said yourself that MIL can be demanding and unpleasant. Also it may be possible that her condition has deteriorated since your DS was away at university. You may not notice it as much as him as you are there with her all the time.

I actually think it's a quite a bit ask to expect your DS to provide all meals which means he has to be in every day for breakfast, lunch and dinner, also presumably make sure she takes her medication. Then make sure her clothes are washed as well. Then there is the issue around her mood swings and lashing out at her carer.

I think you need to have an calm conversation with your DS about what's been happening. It's wise to get in extra care for MIL. Will probably get flamed for this but guinea pigs and fish will survive if they aren't fed every single day.

I think caring for someone solo is very lonely -even if it's only for a fortnight.
I cared for my Mum without support and if I'm honest it took a terrible toll on my mental health and ten years later I'm really only now addressing this fully.

You don't expect to care for her alone but you are expecting your SS to with no emotional support whatsoever. available to him whilst you are away. I really think you need to bite the bullet and get carers in and if MIL doesn't like it - well tough . You are doing what is best for BOTH of them (as well as yourself as you won't be worrying so much)

I think it's unfair to ask your son to do the holiday cover for you, but that his behaviour so far towards his nan is not on and needs to pitch in as part of the family unit with making her occasional lunch, being company and household chores

Also it's disgraceful that a 20yr old cannot be responsible for small pets

ShelaghTurner, the OP is very clear that she and her DH work as a team to manage MIL, along with their other children. DSS is away at uni.

We don't know how it came about that he agreed to the plan. Cajoling, guilt tripping (even if unintentionally)?? He might have just agreed because sometimes you just feel you can't back out of something even if you aren't comfortable with it.

He should look after the pets though. That only take a few minutes each day.

I have a,21 yr old who has just finished his second year at uni. He is working I his holidays and living rent free at home. because he is our son and that's what good parents do.

He is clever, sociable, sometimes very mature, sometimes I see ds aged six. If my mother were vulnerable and lived with us, my/our son would be coming on the family holiday with us. My mother or mil would have paid carers if they couldn't come too.

My grannie had alzheimers, even in the early stages she was too much for my grandad and mother, say, one in every nine or ten days.

Let your son live and be stupid and irresponsible and fulfil a young man's rights of passage relating to freedom.

As an aside -do you honestly take university age children on holiday with you? He either goes with his mates or goes to festivals instead. His choice. As an older adult I do now holiday with my parents but as I young adult I couldn't wait to do my own thing? My other older (younger than him)children still come with us through choice as still a bit too young for friends holidays.
The arrangement with his Nan wasn't forced on him because we are desperate for a break. It was actually booked last year before her mobility deteriorated and I thought we would still be okay to go.
He was quite happy to do it as it meant 2 weeks off work but still getting virtually the same wage ( a bit less) . In return he was being asked to prepare 3 edible meals, general light housework, dog walking and pet feeding. He would be doing thus anyway if he was in the house by himself except for the regular meals. I would have jumped at that at his age. Yes Nan can moan n complain but not every minute of the day. He is more used to her than anyone as he often stayed at her house as it was walking distance from hius mates whereas ours had an hourly bus service.

Yes, our dc are 18 and 21 and adore our family holiday. They look forward to it.

My kids will always get an invite on family holidays. When they are working, they would pay for themselves. But i would invite them.

That's what my mum and dad always did. If they were going away, for an anniversary try wouldn't invite us. But if one of the kids was going the other was always invited.

I don't quite understand how you, your dh or him considered this two weeks off work. For two weeks he has to arrange his schedule around his gran. when I was two weeks off was spent doing as I pleased.

You are asking him to take on 24 hour caee for 2 weeks of a woman so frail she can't carry a bowl to the sink.

Unless she threw the bowl on the floor in a temper, which was your first guess.

So she is clearly physically weak and emotionally and mentally compromised.

But you want her sole caree for a fortnight to be her 20 year old grandson?

It is you, not he that is being irresponsible here.

That is not an adequate or safe level of care.

Her needs have got far worse since you agreed this with him, but instead of adapting your plans you want to hold him to something he agreed a year ago under different circumstances?

I can quite see why he feels so aggrieved. You are not listening to him and are very quick to blame him.

Do you really treat your birth children as liars who can't be trusted?

Whilst expecting them to cover your responsibilities?

It's all a bit Cinderella.

plenty of people in the queue for ugly sister methinks

This is not 2 weeks "off", OP! This is 2 weeks being paid less than he would for his regular job to take on far more responsibility by caring 24h/day with no respite for a "cantankerous" frail old woman with growing memory problems and a tendency to abuse people behind their backs. Just so you can have your holiday without having to pay for real carers. It's hardly time off.

My DDs are age 18 and 23 and are joining us on our family holiday. The 23 yo is coming for part of the time as she works and hasn't got loads of holidays left. The 18 yo then has her best friend is arriving for the second half of the holiday.

The 18yo has just been to a festival with a friend then tomorrow is flying off to meet her best friend who is on holiday with her parents at the moment.

I don't think this is particularly unusual.

Yes Tink, my university age DD1 (who is now 21) went on a family holiday with us to Cyprus last year and is coming to Portugal this year. All her choice. She also goes away with her friends if she wants to though she has to pay for that herself.

If we are planning a family holiday then we would never not invite. It really isn't that unusual at all.

You really are minimising your MIL's problems, which sound like they have increased a fair bit in the last year since DSS agreed to the arrangement.

You are being most unfair to DSS, and very unreasonable. Yes, he is officially an adult and as such must do some work around the house etc. But he is a very young and inexperienced one and you are making him do 24/7 care.

Why, oh why do some people think that once someone has passed their 18th birthday they are ready to have the worries and responsibilities of the whole world heaped upon them.

Be fair to everyone. Do the responsible thing and get carers in. The arrangement you have is the wrong one now because circumstances have changed. It is grossly unfair and may well not work.

On your head be it, not DSS's.

I feel quite sorry for him (and you) to be honest. Yes, he is 20 and benefitting from loving at home without paying rent to a landlord, but with the property market as it is I think many young people in their early 20s need that kind of support and a home for a few years while they get on their feet. It must be quite tough for him and your other children to have an occasionally mean, "cantankerous" old woman there who needs a lot of looking after. I know she is their grandmother, but in all honesty it isn't a situation I would put my children in if I could possibly help it - I would look for residential care or at least a home carer for her in your house to take the pressure off everyone else.

I don't criticise you at all for having her living with you, but I think you do need to see it from your son's perspective. I imagine it must be quite stressful to have her in the house. Her behaviour sounds very difficult and I don't think her grandchildren should be expected to cook food for her or even be in the house with her on her own for any length of time to be honest.

But I do understand that all family situations are different. I was never close to my grandparents so never had a loving, happy relationship with them to remember when they got older and more difficult. On the other hand, I would drop everything to make sure my parents are comfortable as they get older. So I admit that my feelings come from that perspective and of course it may feel quite different if your son had years of being very close to his nan and enjoying her company.

I do care work - it's really rewarding though occassionally frustrating and quite physically demanding to do 8 hour shifts. I'd rather chop my arm off than care for an elderly relative 24/7 though, and a lot of the people who are sweet to the carers are very "cantankerous" indeed to their relatives and berate them for not being more attentive even if they visit daily - in fact the more dutiful a relative is, the more they are berated in some cases!

I wonder how much care the MIL in this case really needs if she can't carry a plate - can she really get herself up, washed and dressed in the mornings without any help at all? Most people who can't walk without a frame need some help washing and dressing...

Caring 24/7 totally single handedly for 14 days in a row is quite a big ask IMO unless it is genuinely only serving and clearing meals - sounds unlikely that's all it is though.

I would be showing him the door. Everyone needs to help each other I. A family. When I was growing up well into my early 20s we had our grandparents live with us and we were expected to help with any job needed in the house regardless of who asked for it to bed done. I would never treat my nanny in this manner. Outrageous behaviour

I would never treat my nanny in this manner. Outrageous behaviour

a lot of people seem to be missing that it's not actually clear that he did.

This is all a bit unclear. However, as someone who has cared for an extremely ill (now deceased) parent, I think you need to be very clear that it is your choice to care for an elderly relative, not your son's. It sounds as though the arrangement you had in the past, i.e. whoever was home got lunch or whatever together for her, worked relatively well (though personally I don't think it's fair to rely on your children like this) but it sounds to me as though MIL's needs have changed now and she may will benefit from additional care. The most selfish thing an elderly relative can do, IMO and IM (sadly extensive) E is refuse carers. The family carers, often well meaning but perhaps misguided, end up stuck, running themselves into the ground and the situation becomes untenable.

I see your point that DSS could and perhaps should help out (morally speaking). However, should he really be made not to work so he can work for you, caring for his GM? He'd be better not messing his employer around and your MIL employing carers properly.

I think your heart is in the right place but that it's likely time to get the professionals in. I think you've been unfair to your DSS.

I wonder how different some of these comments would be if you were talking about your 20 year old daughter OP?

If MY son behaved like this,I would either be telling him to find alternative accommodation pronto or start charging him rent.

Exactly bran. OP has minimised, prevaricated and changed her story, and one of the few certainties here is that we're talking about an elderly lady with memory problems. There's been no attempt from OP, perhaps understandably but still worryingly, to address the concerns raised about her minimisation.

Might be a bit left field but how long has she lived with you for? We had grandparents living with us growing up and it wrecked my relationship with my mum and grandparents and has given me several issues as an adult

I had similar last year with my eldest. He worked and paid minimal rent (to get him used to paying his way. My BIL never did and still struggles to budget at 38!). He just had to feed to dog and give her her anti convulsion medication. He didn't and she had a series of seizures until we could get it under control again. He ranted and raved like a three year old. I relieved him of his lunchtime duties and split everything by 4 so he was paying his share of the mortgage, utility bills, council tax, etc. He then had to buy his own food, do his own washing. He hit reality with an almighty thump. It did work though. Good luck xxx