Re: expectations of adult son

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I genuinely don't know. He is 20 and home from uni. Mil lives with us as she can barely stand without her zimmer. She doesn't need any personal care but we do all her meals, drinks and tablets. We don't use carers but have 3 older children, all of whom have finished college etc and between us we manage. I don't think its unreasonable to say to any of them you do nans lunch as you are at home anyway (to whoever - probably shared evenly). One of us nips home if they all have plans. I nearly always do the evening meal, dh does breakfast it usually lunch n doesnt have to be elaborate. That's all - no care, a basic meal, a drink n take tablets from a nomad n put them on her table. Don't expect them to stay home but do it when they are in anyway. We are all except eldest son going away for a fortnight shortly. He has a holiday job but the plan was always he was taking 2 weeks off, looking after Nan , dogs n other pets n getting paid for it. Sightly less than his wages but he was happy as not exactly hard work. Would also involve washing her clothes n probably other minor jobs but thats all. Much easier than his job n she didn't want carers coming in. Today though things have deteriorated to such an extent that I don't even trust him to feed the animal's. Twice this week have come home to her in tears. He burnt her lunch the other day, forgot it was in the oven, went back upstairs n then told her to stop whinging when she said it was inedible.
Similar thing today. Boiled a pan of soup almost dry, then left her to shoot back upstairs n she smashed the dish as he ignored her shouting him to take it away n get her tablets.
Aibu unreasonable to think he lives here rent free, we help him out (and so does she with an allowance) at uni? These aren't horrible strenuous chores n he can't even manage them. We are going away in 2 weeks and now having to source very expensive care (which she really didn't want) and to be honest I don't even trust him to feed the pets. I have visions of him forgetting the fish n Guinea pigs and dread what we might come home too. Am going to have to ask someone to have them. Money isn't the main issue, she has had carers before and didn't like it. To be honest I am livid with him
I feel like telling him to pay board himself now. I feel like he needs a dose of reality n we mollycoddle him. If he can help out, even when he is being paid then why should we sub him? It costs me a fortune when he us home especially in food. Aibu?

There are plenty of 20 year olds looking after whole wards or care homes full of elderly people with advanced dementia. All you are asking is that he gives his own grandmother lunch. YANBU.

I think your expectations of him are a little unreasonable really. She sounds like hard work and I don't think he's mature or patient enough to handle her behaviour. The dynamic between them is bad and leaving them alone together for a fortnight is not a good idea.

I rang Help the Aged on Friday and am expecting a call from them today as they do short notice respite carers. She does has some memory issues and has been referred to the memory clinic so maybe they will have some answers. I know the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. He will have overcooked her dinner n then jokingly (in his head anyway) told her to stop moaning when she said something. My own Grandad would tell blatant lies about people so know what you mean. He didn't have Alzheimer's just as he got older.
Its not verging on abuse - he simply has no manners and just doesn't know how to treat people at times. He can be nice with her and she really doesnt like carers coming in (had them briefly when she lived on her own) so this seemed an ideal solution. He can cook as well but I had planned on freezing meals that he could just reheat just so she has variety.
I would have maybe agreed about possible aspergers if I hadn't seen him transform in front of others into an articulate polite young man. A bit like the Kevin n Perry sketch but they were 13 not 20! He also never takes responsibility that he may have done something wrong - everything is always someone else's fault.
Im going to let dh ask for £20 a week board as he really does nothing around the house. The other older 2 one works part time n the other has just left school n looking for a part time job. They do help around the house though. I think he was looking forward to 2 weeks off work but he has blown it now.

£20 a week? I was paying £35 a week 20 years ago.

Sounds like he needs a proper kick up the arse OP.
Time he chipped in for everything he uses.
Food, electric, gas, internet etc etc etc.
Be prepared to stick by your guns. He sounds like a spoiled and entitled little child so I wouldn't be surprised if he throws a wobbly.

Maybe the two of them together, alone isn't a good combination?

Maybe get those posh meals on wheels for two weeks instead of carers and you could make and freeze sandwiches for her tea that he can defrost (if he'll remember) but making a simple sandwich should be doable?

You're angry now, but you need a solution, quickly, so that you can go on holiday. Deal with the bigger issue(s) when you're back.

£20 a week? I was paying £35 a week 20 years ago.

And I was paying £20 a week 7 years ago. Paying more doesn't mean that you win! £150 a week isn't much at all and, while k totally agree that he should be chipping in, it's also good that he is paying off his overdraft.

Let me guess it's all your fault too, he isn't doing anything wrong, everyone is just picking on him and giving him a hard time. - Poor Lamb.

I'm guessing he is shooting back upstairs to play some kind of gadget and then forgetting. Both incidents involved shooting back up midstream. Could you tell him that he cannot leave the kitchen until she is served and everything is cleaned up. I must admit my 20 year old has burnt my dinner leaving kitchen to go on xbox at times. They cannot be clueless at times.Can she get out of bed wash dress etc herself? Otherwise who will do all that. Saying that my dm needs help now and while lm very happy to help her l would go bonkers if l had to do it for 2 weeks with no break as she is fussy and contrary. As siblings we rotate. Its good he will be in the house at night and in case she falls during the day. Give him another chance. The responsibility will be good for him and remember she will be cranky and allow for that.

He does sound useless. But she sounds difficult too. Smashing bowls because it wasn't taken away, isn't great either.

Tbh I had cousins who just couldn't cope with caring for grandad or seeing him deteriorate. Some of them pretended he was fine and left him doing things they shouldn't have. They just couldn't see how bad he was. Even up to the day he ended up being section after he got out and was trying to get in someone's car, naked. The person who owned the car called 999 and he ended up sectioned and then placed in a home.

Possibly he just hates watching her deteriorate, doesn't want to acknowledge it and can't see it. Possibly he thinks she is putting in on a bit, or frustrated that she makes a huge deal of small things and smashes things. Or he is a lazy knob. If it's the latter, serious words and a change in how the run the household is done.

It may have been a bit more difficult than just plonking a plate in front of someone, but tbh not so difficult that a 20-year-old couldn't cope.

He might be mentally deciding never to do care work, but however 'unsuited to caring' he may be, this is just rubbish of him and very immature. I think your original mood was more accurate tbh! I've done jobs that I was internally begging to be released from after a few hours but i still did them to the best of my ability and tried to look after anyone vulnerable involved.

Depending on how much you think it would upset her, I would keep trying. Give him more instructions - he must spend X minutes talking to her, he must offer her an alternative if she rejects the first. Don't let him off immediately just because he found it more challenging than he thought.

OP I have something similar going on here,but without the added complication of an older person to care for.

Its a nightmare and if I stand back from it I would probably be one of those people saying " make him pay rent" but when you are in the situation its so much harder.

I think I'd sit him down and spell it out.

The situation between him and his grandmother is unacceptable (you don't care whose fault it is)

He needs to show over the next week that he can fulfil the duties of lunch and been polite to her no matter the provocation or he loses the looking after Gran pay and you'll get carers in.

Until I got to the smashed plate I had little sympathy for him but now I'm wondering if she was vile to him and as golden grandchild this has come as a shock as she has always been nice to him if not the rest of you. It's not an excuse but he may now feel he can't deal with her three times a day for two weeks and maybe he actually can't and carers would be better.

I had a vile elderly relative and agreed reluctantly to stay with her after the sister she lived with died for a couple of weeks. Even though I was working full time so was essentially only sleeping there I didn't last a week as she was so much worse than usual because she thought I had to put up with it. This relative was just like your MIL could be generous but she'd slag everyone off behind their back and could be very hard work. I was a bit older about 25 (and my brother was the golden child not me so I knew she could be vile but this was so much worse than her normal).

I think you need to talk to him and find out his side too with a fair hearing before writing him off as ungrateful, there may be more to it than just a Kevin attitude and he has very real worries about coping with her three times a day for two weeks no matter how useful the money would be.

I am having trouble responding to this logically, because I find what your son did really horrible. I get that it is difficult to know the truth, I get that he is young (though his age is no excuse IMO) but the idea that you genuinely can't trust your adult son to look after his grandmother's basic needs is completely foreign to me. How can someone be so lacking in empathy?

I don't think you can let him off so lightly, he needs to learn to put others first, and it sounds like he needs to grow up. You have my sympathy though, it sounds like a very tricky situation.

Ok, I think a bit of 'Tough Love' is in order here, don't let this go on any longer, you might want to let his dad tell him the rules of the house, if he/they don't play by the rules, he/they r out on their ears.
We made my sons life soooooo easy, thinking that we were doing the right/kind/super duper parent thing........
We were so wrong and yes we had trouble of the same sort.
So.... A psychiatrist friend said that... If you don't let children fend for themselves and live at home in comfort/with no worries they stay at age 17.
Tough love will give him purpose in live..
Remember the essentials of life are....according to my grandad..

Someone to love
Something to do
Something to look forward to.

Without saying anything, we adults live by rules, we do things in certain ways at certain times, we respect others, we try and keep the peace and most of all we try to keep everyone happy.... I say TRY!!
Be strong and stick to yr guns.

Your poor DSS.

He is home from college for the summer working and (as I read it) is being forced to take two weeks off his job to be his grandmother's carer (for which he will be paid less than his job).

His grandmother's dislike of carers, and your and his father's decision to care for her at home, creates NO obligation on this young man to be a carer when he doesn't want to be.

Getting to go home in Uni holidays is hardly dome major luxury.

Nobody should ever be forced into caring responsibilities against their will.

There are other options here, but you and his grandmother have rejected them.

To suit yourselves.

But you have booked two weeks away based on using an unwilling, inexperienced 20 year old as round the clock respite care.

And this for a difficult woman who throws crockery on the floor to ensure he can't spend any time on anything else.

He's 20. Of course he's going to burn food.

If you want a carer, pay for one.

Don't treat your children as your staff.

Why is she throwing bowls on the floor because he nips upstairs and doesn't present her with her tablets the instant she asks for them? Are there medical reasons for this sort of behaviour, or was she just kicking off because she doesn't think she should have to wait for anything? If the latter, I can't see how he's to blame. If the former, she's likely to need more specialist care than an untrained 20 year old could offer, even one who's not as gormless as DS sounds. You've not really addressed this in your posts even though a number of people have asked.

He should do stuff around the house though. That's entirely separate from the grandmother issue. Regardless of the caring responsibilities you and your DH have chosen to take on, because this was your choice not your child's, a 20 year old ought to be doing a share of the housework.

Yes, he should certainly be doing his fair share of ordinary household chores while he's at home.

I'm not sure charging him board is on, unless the others are all paying the same rate.

You certainly can't ask him to pay the care costs for his grandmother's respite during your holiday.

That was a really unfair plan to have put in place.

Let him go to work in his actual job and sort out your own holiday care.

I can see both sides of this. It does seem a little unfair to expect a 20 year old to look after an elderly person with advanced needs. If she's smashing plates, then it may be that she needs a professional carer who has training in how to calm her down.

HOWEVER - he should be paying his way, and contributing to the running of the household. All adult children should be paying x% of their earnings for the running of the house. That proportion should be the same for all your adult children. Each adult child also needs a chore list of age-appropriate chores. A 20 year old could be doing pretty much anything around the house and garden, but I really wouldn't include elderly care in this. It would be different if she was an elderly person who was easy to deal with, but smashing plates and shouting does seem to indicate that it might be too much for him to deal with.

I think paying his way would have to depend on what you did for the elder siblings during holiday periods when studying. Unless your finances have altered significantly in the meantime perhaps, like if you're now on a lower income and require a financial contribution to pay the bills when you didn't before. Most people don't see time spent at home during study vacations as quite the same as time spent at home working. Presumably because students tend to need to earn in the holidays to support themselves for the rest of the year. But some people don't have a choice but to ask, of course.

Can I just say that at 18 I was doing 13 hour shifts in a nursing home, caring for people ranging from lovely to cantankerous to downright horrible. Many of them had needs that went well beyond popping a plate down in front of them three times a day. I too had very little experience as a carer prior to this, but honestly it is not rocket science. His age is not the issue. His lack of empathy is.

I'm sorry but your mil sounds horrible. Slagging you off to other people after all you do. Being nasty to your step daughter but nicer to others. That's emotional abuse and if she is of sound mind then she needs to realise that people are trying to look after her rather than put her into a home. She sounds like she is embellishing situations and although your son has been forgetful twice and has a lot to learn, she is not blameless. I would get carers in if you are going on holiday. He is not a trained cater and two weeks is a lot to ask of him when he has not been at home with her before. It would be irresponsible to leave him in charge. He is not responsible enough yet and is young for his age. Some kids are mature for their age and some are not.

Not a trained carer that should have read

. I too had very little experience as a carer prior to this, but honestly it is not rocket science.

My auntie is a carer. She completely understands why people find it hard. She also thinks caring for you own loved ones is harder. Especially when they are nasty. It's more hurtful.

My aunties, my mum and me cared for my grandad. I totally understand why some people find so hard they can't do it. Many of my cousins tried and failed. Some gave up really quickly. I was fine with that. I totally understand.

I can have empathy with people who struggle and people who don't.

Op you said the truth was somewhere inbetween. What was his version and whose version have you given us?

You don't need to be a trained carer she has no personal needs just food requirements - its no different to a small immobile child to be honest. My 10 yr old would do better than this.

I think he is being selfish and she is being selfish and they both need a bloody good talking to and being told to behave. Its not unreasonable to ask son to do looking after for a couple of weeks with support from siblings, esp if paid albeit less than whilst at work, its not onerous. Its not unreasonable to speak to GM and ask her to be more understanding in terms of he has his own life and things he wants to do.

I wouldn't ask for board if you are not asking the others for it too, that is unfair despite the things they do, if you then want to pay them for things fair enough but it needs to be seen to be equitable and people need the choice of contributing rather than being forced too. If he is wanting to pay off debts you may find when he realises that he can save himself money by doing chores he will switch his attitude.

If she's very cantankerous and for whatever reason throws crockery on the floor if she doesn't get what she wants immediately, I'm not sure you can minimise the care experience required. It's not so much the feeding someone and providing tablets, it's coping with obnoxiousness in your own home. There's a reason trained carers tend to say it's easier to do the role as a job than in your personal life.

And tbh I think OP is, possibly understandably since she must be desperate for a break, minimising MILs mental condition. We have mention of being grumpy, depressed, referrals to memory clinics, slagging people off behind their backs. All direct quotes from the OP. That's painting a particular picture, tbh. And it's not of someone who can be left for a fortnight with a daft, uncommitted carer.