To think boys should be able to do Brownies?

[PrinceCharming7]

I'm a bit confused why they don't? Girls are allowed to do Scouts/Cubs/Beavers, so why can't boys do brownies?

"Toxic masculinity" is bad for boys as well as girls. In fact especially boys.

This is not antagonistic about boys, but a view of how damaging some expressions of masculinity are for both girls and boys.

In my small town we have guides and girls brigade that are girls only. We have boys brigade that is boys only. We have scouts that is, in theory, mixed.

We also have a football club with a girls only team and also a team for all though there's no girls in my son's age group. We have boxing, gymnastics, cricket and hockey that is all mixed.

My dd and ds went to scouts. Dd left because she was the only girl, she had previously done GB and guides but neither suited her. Ds left scouts because there was too much craft for him, he was bored. He is starting BB in Sept.

There's a massive range of activities available, surely you find the activity to suit your child, rather than try and change an activity to make it suit them? That's why we tried various ones, wouldn't have occurred to me to complain to the leaders that it should be changed to suit us. Op, I am sure out of all the activities available, you can find something to suit your ds!

Striped, you've been in a mosque and observed the segregation and how girls should behave there?

Why should a girls only space be saved for mosque?

I'm happy being a leader of a female only group. It's our space and we will defend it, as our numbers and waiting lists show it's a good thing.

On the flip side the support I get from my female only leaders is inspirational.
I work in a 98% male environment (I'm one of two senior women), it's my haven too.

Exactly Miss Duke

I can't be arsed to read through the whole thread again, but will just re cut & paste the two comments that I already referred to, that jumped out at me enough to prompt me commenting:

Given that they are the ones doing the raping, the murdering of partners, the violence against other males, etc, etc.

Rather than mothers of boys clutching their pearl at the thought of their Princes being anything other than completely wonderful, how about you realise that toxic masculinity is drilled into males from a very early age, and in spaces with girls this does have an affect? And rather than sulk about people's valid views of girl spaces, help to erase that toxic masculinity which will negatively affect your sons?

We are talking about young boys who are still developing and growing, not grown men with already rigid & toxic views of women.

I have already stated that I believe that girl-only clubs are A Good Thing btw, I just object to the completely OTT & unnecessary way that some people insist on talking about young boys.

That sort of language is offensive when used in the context of children who are still growing, learning and open to not growing up to be misogynistic twats.

There's no negative comments from me as a aunt of boys.

Young boys are awesome, but they need to have their own space too.

just object to the completely OTT & unnecessary way that some people insist on talking about young boys

Such as?

"I can't be arsed to read through the whole thread again, "

No, course you can't. Because that would involve understanding what people are saying rather than going off on an anti feminist rant!

An anti-feminist rant?!

Do get a fucking grip Bertrand - I'm a feminist myself.

I find that I'm perfectly able to be a feminist in my everyday life.
I provide a strong feminist role model practically & verbally to my boys through my actions, my traditionally male-dominated trade skills and my constant reinforcing of how white men have inherent privilege, using real life examples as and when the opportunity arises.

My feminism isn't just defined by simply being wordy & anti-men on an anonymous Internet forum.

In fact, further to my last sentence, an anonymous Internet discussion forum dominated by middle class, middle aged women.

A forum that will do nothing to demonstrate feminism on a practical level to my children.

I wasn't going to come back to this thread today (after reading people getting personal about my own sons last night ) but people keep taking my early post and twisting it to suit their agenda.

It was me who posted about the raping and murdering. It was in response to someone saying 'boys need safe spaces too'. I do believe the world is boy-safe before girl-safe. I was NOT saying that 8 year old boys are rapists and murderers. I have an 8 year old boy of my own. He's wearing a Minions onesie, obsessed with dinosaurs and wants to be a ninja when he grows up. Do I see him as a rapist or someone likely to murder his future partner? No. Is he statistically more likely to fall into either of those two categories than his older sister? Scarily, yes. Does this mean I hate boys? No. As I've said, my two boys are as much loved and valued as my daughter.

Interesting that the people taking my comment as an attack on 8 year old boys are the same people who think the OP (who is either a goady name changer or a goady newbie as they've never posted before) is right.

As for the poster who said 'god help' my two sons. Why? Why 'god help them'? They're happy, healthy, over-achieving, well-adjusted boys, thanks.

And my words being picked apart and twisted into an anti-boy thing while someone posts stuff about Muslim girls having mosques to go to rather than Brownies? Words fucking fail me.

Lilac, I was not rehashing your original comment to use it against you - that was dealt with last night.
I apologise if that was how it came across.

Absolutely, Lilac.

This thread is bonkers.

Surely - to paraphrase, NOT ONE POSTER has said boys shouldn't have a boy only space.

Rather boys shouldn't infiltrate one of the few remaining girl only spaces. Any person is welcome to set up a boy only space.

Its crackers "they've got it, its not faaaaaaaaair".

I quite like the idea of Brownies for girls and Scouts for boys.

Mango bad timing on my part. I wasn't referring to you, rather the people who had a go last night and decided to get personal.

What JacquesHammer said.

Cannot believe people are seriously making the argument that girls-only activities are bad because it means the girls are not socially available to boys.

Because obviously boys being able to 'have' them is the most important thing. God forbid girls make their own choices about how they want to spend their time, and don't base those choices on pleasing boys!

Why, it's almost like some people think girls don't exist solely as male playthings!!

I am very happy with my girls attending an all girls Brownies group and wouldn't want that to change. There are plenty of other mixed groups that either gender can attend. I don't understand what all of the fuss is about.

No worries Lilac.

Any person is welcome to set up a boy only space.

Are they really? Surely they would fall foul of discrimination laws.

so all boys grow up to be rapists

Not that Lilac ever said that, but OBVIOUSLY not all boys grow up to be rapists - just enough for it to be a serious concern.

And teaching boys from a young age that they're entitled to have whatever they want contributes to a rape culture.

I think it's very telling that some people are more concerned that people have pointed out boys sometimes turn into rapists than they are about females being unsafe

think it's very telling that some people are more concerned that people have pointed out boys sometimes turn into rapists than they are about females being unsafe

That is simply untrue.

And teaching boys from a young age that they're entitled to have whatever they want contributes to a rape culture

Are you seriously saying that if boys attended Brownies that's teaching them "to have whatever they want"
For serious

1. It's parents that sign their kids up to these things
2. presumably, once in brownies, they'ld have to share, take turns and follow rules like everyone else

……

1. Attending brownies would contribute to rape culture… WTF! this thread is insane and hysterical