To worry that benefits (WTC, Housing, CB, CT) will be stopped for EU UK residents

[feellikeahugefailure]

It's obvious that EU residents will be allowed to stay, but could they try to limit benefits for these people?

Without these it would be near impossible for many people to afford to have a family, myself included.

There have already been a number of restrictions applied to benefits for EEA nationals in recent years. This gives a good overview of recent changes and the effects they are having on people's lives.

`I think this would be a good time to looking into making benefits contributory for everyone regardless of nationality. It works in other countries
and what do you suggest about disabled people. or people who don't qualify

oh the work house

I wasn't entitled to a dime when I moved to italy. I don't think people should emigrate here unless you can stand up on your own two feet. Save our budget for those who really need it.

I think it would be sensible to stop benefits for immigrants and Europe citizens. I don't think anyone should start a family relying on benefits and tax credits as your post suggests you would be. The whole benefits system doesn't work and shouldn't be a lifestyle for people wanting to start a family.

I'd like to see some similar stats for in work benefits of Brits in EU nations vs EU nationals claiming here.

Probably a good thing. Employers should be paying proper wages not expecting taxpayers to subsidise low pay so they can hire cheap workers from the EU and make huge profits.

Yes you should have to have contributed before you get benefits.
I never understand why people say "what about disabled people", I work with plenty disabled people! Blind, deaf, MH issues, wheelchair users and all manner of other issues etc etc. Plenty of people with disabilities work. Disability only in rare cases mean you can never work again and of course those people should be supported. But to cry "what about disabled people" all the time does the many people who have disabilities and still work a great disservice. I find it very tiresome.

I think everything is on the table for negotiation. it has to be. we cant afford to go into the room with red lines about things. We have to see what is offered as a reciprocal arrangement.

In my view TM will use this as an opportunity to relook again at the whole benefits system and will probably base it on Frank Fields report. Then we can start targeting money at the cant's rather than the won'ts.

Samcro obviously there would have to be provisions for people who cannot work for whatever reason. As I mentioned in my follow-up post. But if you look at other EU countries, they simply do it better. In Holland, for instance, there are two levels of JSA-type benefit. The lower tier is set at 70% of national minimum wage, so still a good bit more than over here in the UK. Then you may also be entitled to assistance with rent and other top-ups. The higher tier is available if you have worked - how much you get and for how long is dependent on how long you have paid in for. It's set at a minimum of 70% of your previous wage. Can you imagine how much easier it is to get a new job is your income does not suddenly plummet?

And Holland does indeed have provision for people who can't work. Any civilised society should have those things. Even under the lower tier of benefit, someone with caring responsibilities would still be getting a hell of a lot more money than carers do here in the UK. I am not arguing for the abandonment of support for people who need it, I am arguing for a system where you get out if you pay in, and if you cannot pay in, you are still supported.

Meanwhile, we should also ask ourselves why here in the UK we are so bad at deporting EU nationals who don't work. Under EU law, it's perfectly possible to do so. Germany is good at it, far better than the UK government. Why is that? Could it be because employers benefit from having a black market in cheap labour? We should be looking at all the domestic policy failures that underlie the way things are in the UK and stop blaming foreigners for the failings of politicians.

I'd like to see some similar stats for in work benefits of Brits in EU nations vs EU nationals claiming here

A very small amount of countries have benefits that compare to the UK's. Those that do are contribution based.

I suspect these benefits will be pretty much stopped for everyone, not just immigrants.

I also suspect that EU citizens in the UK may not be able to remain...

Absolutely agree that there have been huge domestic policy fails not just by this government but going back years. in the past they have blamed this on "EU rules" well now they cant hide behind this particular curtain any more our politicians are going to have to start doing what they are paid for.

The balance between the rights of the individual and the rights of the society in which they live has become skewed over the years. I also agree that it is in some employers interests to keep lots of low wage workers who don't complain but its time also for them to be made to take responsibility.

Samcro,

If I went to Holland tomorrow, I couldn't claim ANY benefits until I have started work and continued in the work for some time.

Dacc that's why economic migrants don't stop in these other countries and want to make their way here. we could have changed this when we were in the EU but we chose not to. I wonder what the excuse will be now that we cant blame the EU for all of our ills. some politicians need to wise up to this and realise that the buck is going to stop with them now.

Many, many years ago we were non UK/EU migrants (we are not citizens).

We could not claim any benefits for the first 4 or 5 years were were here and on work permits and then as soon as were granted indefinite leave to remain, we were given back child benefit and could claim other benefits if we needed to.

I imagine they will come up with something similar to indefinite leave, and if you have it, then you can claim benefit.

We are NOW citizens. Definitely not not citizens

mouldycheesefan and I find it tiresome that people say well a lot of disabled people can work.
of course they can

but a lot can't and never will be able to.
(they still add a lot to society though)

Not that I think we are ever going to leave as its going to take years of legal challenge and no-one will have the heart to by then.

But, assume we do. And recession is creeping up already, with a tory austerity obsessed government. I don't think its just EU benefit claimants who are going to get screwed - I think everyone on benefits is going to get screwed.

I'm an eu migrant, been here 18yrs and have 2 British children. Marriage broke down due to emotional abuse.
I'm working but still get child benefit, tax credits plus a little bit of working tax credits.
Why should my British children loose out because my passport is from a different country?
I have also contributed for the the past 18yrs, whilst never paid tax in my home country as I came here straight after finishing school.
There are plenty of British people who have never contributed and claiming.

In fairness, things are always a bit different once you have children who were born here. In theory, if you needed benefits it would be for them rather than you.

mouldycheesefan and I find it tiresome that people say well a lot of disabled people can work.
There's another side to it. I work in a place where we have volunteers. One guy has had a brain inury a while ago. He seems ok, is very capable of work he's doing. BUT... On the legal side he's classed as severely disabled -- and can't be left unsupervised at any time. So there's anither volunteer to look after him.
Not every employer actually can accomodate specific needs. Especially if that worker is in a minimum-wage position.

Nataleejah so what governments need to do is get creative about offering companies and organisations tax incentives for employing people who might need flexibility, extra support or a lot of time off sick due to their health, so that cover can be put in place. It would help a lot of people in terms of their mental health and their self esteem if they were actually allowed to work and be productive to the extent that their circumstances allowed. It just has to be made worth everyone's while. At the moment it is all about money and about the interests of shareholders and big business. We have lost sight of the fact that people matter.

flutters I have been here almost 19 years, always worked and paid in, lucky enough not to have needed tax credits and still married. If they try to boot me out, I want my tax and NI contributions back.

It won't happen though, the UK still has to abide by overarching international law, and deporting whole cohorts of people purely on the grounds of their nationality would be illegal.

Pointy there are loads of people like us who have been here many a years working and contributing in this country but I feel we're all thrown in the same pot.
I only started claiming when my marriage broke down, if it weren't for the kids needing a relationship with their dad I would've gone back.
And as soon as more hours are available at work I will take them.

flutters of course we are all thrown in the same pot. We have been a convenient scapegoat for this and previous governments. You don't have to explain yourself - you have paid in and are still paying in. Most people are decent and know that, a small hard core are nasty xenophobes and there are an awful lot of people who are dissatisfied and unhappy and will kick anything that moves.