To worry that benefits (WTC, Housing, CB, CT) will be stopped for EU UK residents

[feellikeahugefailure]

It's obvious that EU residents will be allowed to stay, but could they try to limit benefits for these people?

Without these it would be near impossible for many people to afford to have a family, myself included.

[feellikeahugefailure]

Why shouldn't people get these benefits if they have been paying in?

It would be great if employers paid enough, but they don't and unless your a high earner most families need these to live off. Just cutting them will put people into poverty.

[BumbleNova]

Just as a counterbalance to the prevailing view that the UK is a soft touch - as a student in france for a year I received housing benefit. it was very easy to apply for, all the foreign students were encourage to apply and I basically had 50% of my accomodation paid for. obviously there is no such help for students in the UK.

[chilipepper20]

I don't understand while passport is at all a criteria for benefits. shouldn't it entirely be based on how much you have contributed? Why should a bulgarian who's worked every day of their UK life for 10 years have less access than a brit who hasn't?

One thing the migrants have highlighted is the need for welfare and economic reform. why are people in full time work having to collect benefits? We have a screwed up economy where employers are being subsidised by the government, and house prices are crazy high.

[user1468488303]

And absolutely none of the economic problems are because of the EU, and none will suddenly improve after Brexit. THIS is what people really need to understand.

[Bestthingever]

I doubt it will be taken away from those already here. However while I am happy for freedom of movement to continue, I don't want those who have just arrived to be able to claim benefits or use the NHS for free. I'm feel it should be the same for British residents in Europe too.

[Pimmmms]

If you've lived here for over a decade and want to continue livng here, why haven't you taken steps to get British citizenship?! You want it both ways, not be a citizen, but get the benefits.

[TinyTear]

Pimmmms Because it costs £1500 especially as despite working here for 16 years writing reports and presentations in English for a living they want me to take (and pay for ) an English test that can only be taken at certain approved suppliers, not to mention the 'Life in the UK' test...

I have always planned to get it after I am paying nursery fees and have both children in school so I have a bit more money

[esornep]

If you've lived here for over a decade and want to continue livng here, why haven't you taken steps to get British citizenship?! You want it both ways, not be a citizen, but get the benefits.

Many countries do not allow dual citizenship, so taking British citizenship means giving up your original nationality. The latter is a massive step: it means saying that you will never return to your birth country to live, not even when you retire; that you will never have the right to vote again in your birth country; that your DC will not have joint nationality with your birth country if they are born after you give it up etc etc. It is hardly surprising that many EU citizens who have been resident in the UK for a long, long time have not acquired British citizenship because it is an enormous step, with so many implications.

I'm also not sure what you mean by the sentence "You want it both ways, not be a citizen, but get the benefits". My family pays close to 100k in tax every year. We have private healthcare and educate our children privately. Our work creates jobs for a number of people. I am really not sure what more we could contribute to the country just by becoming UK citizens. (I am a UK citizen but my DP is not. DP would have the right to citizenship but is reluctant to take UK citizenship for the reasons given above.)

[HildurOdegard]

An entirely hypothetical situation - because as we've been told time and time again - EU immigrants within the UK are net contributors - ergo are not claiming benefits.

[esornep]

TinyTear - in practice it costs nearer 3k, what with the costs of the test and also the new requirement to document your settled status.

[esornep]

In Holland, for instance, there are two levels of JSA-type benefit.

But of course in Holland tax rates are considerably higher than here. (You'd pay 5-10% more tax on incomes from 40-60k, for example.)

Plus employers contributions are way higher than here too. That means employees are way more expensive in Holland than here.

Totally agree with the rest of the comments though, particularly:

We should be looking at all the domestic policy failures that underlie the way things are in the UK and stop blaming foreigners for the failings of politicians.

[esornep]

I also suspect that EU citizens in the UK may not be able to remain...

Those who have been resident lawfully in the UK for five years automatically have indefinite right to remain. It would contradict both our own laws and international law to revoke indefinite right to remain once it had been acquired.

Also hard to believe that the UK would be insane enough to try to throw out highly skilled workers, such as the 30,000 academics and scientists from the rest of the EU working in the UK.

[harshbuttrue1980]

I couldn't expect to fly into Australia or America and be housed and given benefits, so why should it be different in the UK? Migrants should be required to give proof that they are able to support themselves before coming, through a job and having savings. Its just common sense. I wouldn't dream of turning up in a foreign country and expecting the taxpayers there to support me (and sensible countries like oz would laugh you out of the airport terminal) - why is Britain such a soft touch.

[LurkingHusband]

Also hard to believe that the UK would be insane enough to try to throw out highly skilled workers, such as the 30,000 academics and scientists from the rest of the EU working in the UK.

Your starting point is we voted for Brexit. Anything is "possible" ...

[user1468488303]

Insane is a relative term these days. Boris for Foreign Secretary....?

[BikeGeek]

But nobody is talking about people rocking up in a country claiming benefits, we're talking about EU citizens who may have been living and working in the UK for some years and whether they would be eligible should they have a change in circumstance.

[LurkingHusband]

Insane is a relative term these days. Boris for Foreign Secretary....?

True. Although his French and Italian are quite good, so not your typical FS ....

[esornep]

Migrants should be required to give proof that they are able to support themselves before coming, through a job and having savings.

Have you looked at the UK's immigration rules?

Apart from student visas and rules for spouses of British citizens, there are currently no visas at all available for non-EU citizens without offers for highly skilled jobs. Immigration from non-EU countries is under tier 1 (exceptional talent) and tier 2 (highly skilled). Both types of visas require not just high skills and explicit job offers, but proof of savings and visa holders must pay a NHS surcharge on top of standard UK tax and NI. Those entering on tier 1 and tier 2 do not have any access at all to benefits. Those coming from a long list of non-EU countries must go through health checks at approved centres before applying for visas.

We are not a soft touch. We are in fact so much not a soft touch that we are turning away around 1 billion pounds per year of income from international university students, by making the visa process so unpleasant. We are so not a soft touch that non-EU highly skilled workers prefer to go elsewhere, where they won't have to pay such high visa costs and be subject to degrading health checks etc.

If we insist on implementing these rules for EU citizens also, we are going to have huge skills gaps in our economy and certain sectors like higher education are likely to collapse, as we lose a big chunk of our EU international students on top of the non-EU ones Theresa May already made us lose.

[user1468488303]

True. Although his French and Italian are quite good, so not your typical FS

Yup, he can insult people in at least 3 languages!

[MintJulip]

That was all done due to high immigration from EU.

Hopefully in future we can apply point system to all immigration and fills skills gap that way,rather than penalize one area to accommodate the other which may not be filling skills gaps but flooding certain areas with skills we do not need.

[mrsvilliers]

Hildur I'm afraid I don't entirely believe that. We've just moved to a small town with a high level of EU migrants - there are at least two children from the small group I know of that are receiving two year funding, so they must be receiving benefits of some kind. In the children's centre there are posters up saying 'EU migrants do not receive any extra benefits' which is interesting wording. So I do wonder where the stats have come from.

Fwiw it's worth I am of the mindset of a pp who feels people in full time work should be paid properly so they don't need to collect benefits. EU migrants/Non EU migrants and UK born alike.

[eyebrowsonfleek]

I am a UK citizen and received Child Benefit when living in Germany. It was 150 euro X 3 children at the time (total 450 euro) - far more than UK Child Benefit.

[esornep]

That was all done due to high immigration from EU.

It was done to try to reduce total immigration figures, yes.

However, in the last few years, despite these draconian rules for non-EU immigration, only half of our immigration has actually been from the EU. We have an economy which needs immigration, from highly skilled workers but also from young working people to support our rapidly ageing population. There is not convincing evidence that EU immigration has been flooding the UK with skills we do not need in recent years.

There is also no convincing discussion of how we can actually stop e.g. cash in hand, cut-price manual labour from Eastern Europe without entirely blocking our borders.

[user1468488303]

I am a UK citizen and received Child Benefit when living in Germany. It was 150 euro X 3 children at the time (total 450 euro) - far more than UK Child Benefit

300,000 Brits living in Ireland, a good percentage of them will be getting 150€ a month per child. Plus any unemployment, disability, housing, carers etc they may be entitled to, all at higher rates than UK equivalents.

People always forget the other side to it!

[MintJulip]

ah yes but germany and ireland are paying much more than other countries arnt they.

Its not equal.

We also need to start putting our own citizens first actually and if there are massive skill gaps, we need to be working out how to fill them from within.
we have no control at all over the skills people come with from the EU.
One a filter is applied order can return to the chaos and hopefully things will even out.

It goes without saying we need immigration. However we don't need as Steve Hilton said " endless supply of Hungarian waiters who are giving nothing to the economy no matter how charming they are"