To worry that benefits (WTC, Housing, CB, CT) will be stopped for EU UK residents

[feellikeahugefailure]

It's obvious that EU residents will be allowed to stay, but could they try to limit benefits for these people?

Without these it would be near impossible for many people to afford to have a family, myself included.

[Bestthingever]

It's funny you say that Jamie. My dh wasn't born here (although now has the nationality). We came here because he got a UK based job with his company. We applied for a settlement visa as it was more straightforward than a work visa. On the visa it said 'no recourse to public funds for two years'. When I pointed it out to him, he said ' why the fuck would I want to take anything from this country?' Of course he's changed his tune after ten years because he's paid a fortune in taxes and NI but at that point he wouldn't have as he felt unentitled.
Also you have my sympathies about not being able to bring your fiancé in. Under the new rules, our application would have been unsuccessful as I wasn't even working at the time.

[TinySalmon]

"Without benefits it would be impossible to have a family"

Sorry OP, but from one EU migrant to another, if you can't afford to then don't do it. The State is not here to provide you with an easy life.

[pointythings]

whois changing nationality costs a fortune and has potentially massive implications. If I took UK nationality, I would lose my Dutch nationality. My DCs would not because they are under 18, but I would. It is not a straightforward question.

Bloody hell, there are a lot of haters on this thread all of a sudden.

[JamieVardysParty]

We'll get there eventually, Best. The plan is to build up our savings to 60k and use that instead of buying a house.

DH did live in the UK with work on and off for a few years. He paid a lot in tax & NI. After he left, he came back for a quick holiday and unfortunately broke his shoulder. At the hospital, he asked who he should speak to about paying as he wasn't a citizen/resident but was a tourist.

They laughed and said they had no idea. That no one had ever offered to pay and that they didn't even have anyone in charge of billing/payments. Stark contrast to the hospital in Singapore where I had to give my credit card details before they could let me enter A&E with kidney stones

DH views them fixing up his shoulder for free as his "reward" for paying into the system.

[loona13]

Whois because my taxes are going to support Brits staying on benefits for 20-30 years, never set their foot at work, as they don't want lower paid jobs. They prefer to stay at home and receive benefits.

I'm EU, my children are British, been living here for 15+ years, working all those years, why should I not be entitled to receive benefits? And before you throw British passport question at me, no, I don't want one, as I would have to give up my nationality. Somebody explained it before.

[mrsvilliers]

Alltouchedout thanks so much for clarifying how the stats reflect your household (I would definitely class your household as British BTW!) Sorry you are getting upset by the haters

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

whois
Don't have the skills to come here and get a job that pays enough to live on? Why the fuck should my taxes go to you? They shouldn't.

EU citizens pay the same taxes as you, you know?

This thread proves that ignorance and hatred go hand and in hand

[fluttershyby]

I think he shoudl have to go through the citizen process and get a UK passport for your family to receive beneftis
Whois

So what difference would it make whether they have British citizenship or not. Either way they'd still get the top ups.
As I said before I'm an eu citizen receiving top ups for my British Children. I've paid in for 18 yrs more than plenty of British people on full benefits with no intention of work as they get more in benefits than on minimum wage.
None of this is the fault of immigrants or the EU but the Governments policies. We are just the scapegoat in all of this mess.
It'd be quite interesting to see how much in benefits eu migrants actually receive compared to British citizens. And which percentage are top ups compared to full benefits.

[BillSykesDog]

Ah now come on, you can do better than that! A Polish 20 year old can afford to take the job, and so can a British 20 year old.

But why would a British 20 year old want to do it? There's no incentive. A job like that, for a British 20 year old, would be just condemning them to a job with no prospects and no future just eking by on minimum wage at susistence level, not able to have a decent life or afford a trip to the cinema or a takeaway on an Friday night. Just a permanent dismal life - no more money or freedom than being on out of work benefits, the only difference being that you're working 40/50 hours a week to be in exactly the same situation as you would be sat doing nothing. And they'd often have to leave their home/family/friends community for the privilege into insecure substandard housing in remote areas for an insecure low paid job. Why would they do it? Why should they feel morally beholden to pay into a country that doesn't give two shits about them?

On the other hand, a 20 year old Pole can view it as a short, sharp, shock of temporarily working very hard and living a parsimonious lifestyle. Because of the difference in value between our currency and theirs and the cost of living between our country and theirs they can save up enough in a short period of time to go back to their home country with a stash of cash which will set them up for life, pay a deposit or pay off debts. By contrast for a young British worker the same sum of money wouldn't even buy a second hand car let alone a deposit on a house.

Despite the popular left wing trope of hardworking industrious Eastern European migrants selflessly saving the country from bone idle natives; the truth is that people do something because there is something in it for them that makes it worthwhile. For a migrant there is, for young British people there isn't. It has nothing to do with migrants being inherently better, more noble and more industrious than British born workers.

Honestly, I think this con that the left wing has fallen for over the last 20 years is just astounding. Pre-Blair the Labour Party was concerned with the working poor, their rights and welfare, good working conditions, decent wages, decent affordable housing. But they've jettisoned all that in favour of prioritising migrants and migration over anything else.

The fact that people who honestly believe they are left wing will quite cheerfully lecture the poor on how they should be doing shitty, poorly paid jobs in horrible conditions with no future that won't even pay for a reasonable standard of housing is just so depressing. Leaving aside the fact that these supposed 'anti-racists' will cheerfully make statements about British people being lazy with no work ethic compared to other nationalities which would leave them spitting bile all over Twitter if made about, say, Jamaicans or Pakistanis or Nigerians.

No wonder so many people feel abandoned by the left.

[RebelRogue]

All i care about is the right to remain. As long as that's guaranteed it's all good.We only claim CB,but that's in my (british) partner's name. Benefits were never a reason to move or deciding to stay here.

[fluttershyby]

Rebel
I never came over here to claim benefits either. Didn't even know that they existed (very sheltered 19yr old with hard working parents).
Was pretty shocked to find out 16yr olds were getting pregnant to get a council house and benefits. This was back in the 90s and unheard of where I'm from.

[Bestthingever]

I understand changing nationality can be expensive and problematic for people but you do realise in many other developed countries you would need to do that in order to receive benefits? Why should Britain be different?

[Just5minswithDacre]

I imagine they will come up with something similar to indefinite leave, and if you have it, then you can claim benefit.

They don't need to create it, it already exists.

[HelenaDove]

A friend of mine who was working in a very low paid job back in the early 90s went to the council to ask about renting a flat from them. She was told she stood no chance.........unless she had a baby.

Now there was no such thing as working tax credits back then for people WITHOUT children. And if they were in a low paid job they stood no chance of saving a deposit for a house.

I dont agree with it but i can see why some did it. And the fathers are/were just as responsible. I dont agree with the misogynistic rhetoric towards single mums.

Im childfree by choice and live in a one bedroom social housing flat. Ive never wanted children . If tenants in one bedroom flats all did as i have though there would be even less one bedroom places to go around as not as many would move on.

[HelenaDove]

My DM is Italian and came over to the UK in 1960 She married my dad a few years later. She has two grown up children (one of which is me) and a grown up grandchild. She does not have British citezenship. I found this out when i was a teen in the late 80s/early 90s but after that didnt really discuss it with her until a few weeks before the referendum when she said she still couldnt vote, This is when she told me that she looked into getting British citezenship in the 1960s but was told she would have to give up her Italian passport to get a British one. So she didnt in case she ever needed to go back there which she did when each of her parents died. We also had 2 family holidays in Italy in 1977 and 1983. Neither me or my DB speak Italian. DM didnt bring us up as bilingual. Will she still have to give up her Italian passport if she goes for British citezenship. I dont actually know that she wants to but will she have to.
Shes 80 years old now and spent fifty years working in factories in the UK and only just retired last Christmas

[madein1995]

I think that for EU citizens, any benefits should be contributing based, so the lady whos worked here for years can get money .I know plenty of UK people are on benefits and not paid but they're British citizens, migrants who come over chose to do and if they can't afford it they shouldn't have come. It wouldn't punish those who worked but fell on hard times - as long as they paid in they'd get something. I certainly wouldn't deny someone who's paid in to the country for 40 years, their pension - benefits should be contribution based for non British citizens

[Just5minswithDacre]

Helena did you just C&P that last post? I have tremendous deja vu

And are you saying your friend actually went and had a baby to get a house? Those people are supposed to be apocryphal

[HelenaDove]

Yes its copied and pasted from the referendum board. I couldnt be arsed to type it all out again

She didnt have a kid no. We lost touch when she moved away a few years later.

[Just5minswithDacre]

. I've paid in for 18 yrs more than plenty of British people on full benefits with no intention of work as they get more in benefits than

I'm really concerned about the sudden popularity of this narrative opposition between poor Brits and immigrants, not least because a sizeable proportion of non-working Brits are disabled, sick, carets or retirees.

If you're determined to use that line of argument please bear in mind it will alienate a lot of people.

I feel very torn myself when I hear the pro-immigration argument made by a migrant (something I'd usually have s lot of sympathy with) that then lapses into 'I'm worth more than some of you're compatriots because of the amount of tax I've paid' territory.

[HelenaDove]

She was told she stood more chance of being housed with a child.

There also seemed to be the attitude that women stood less chance of being housed in general because the attitude was they would find a boyfriend and move in with him anyway.

[Just5minswithDacre]

Yes its copied and pasted from the referendum board. I couldnt be arsed to type it all out again Thank good for that - I'm not going batty

She didnt have a kid no. We lost touch when she moved away a few years later.

She was told she stood more chance of being housed with a child.

Ah so your point is about the housing dept staff encouraging it? Maybe they were saying "sorry but priority goes to parents and that's why you're low priority?"

*

[Just5minswithDacre]

Your compatriots

[HelenaDove]

That is probably it Dacre.

[pointythings]

I think benefits in general should be contribution based, as I've said upthread. Many European countries do this. That would mean a massive upheaval and a complete cultural change in the way the UK economy is run, though.

FWIW I think that an immigrant saying 'well, I've paid in more than a lot of Brits' is just as offensive as Brits saying 'well, why should we pay benefits to foreigners even though they have paid in.' Both points of view are repugnant.

[Zhabr]

OP, I did not the whole thread. I cannot afford to live in Chelsea, for example, so I don't live there. I live independently in the cheaper area. I know lot's of EU citizens from Baltic countries. Many of them work hard, but some are openly abusing the system, claiming all they are entitled to. At the same time, some of them have flats and houses in their home countries, such as Lithuania or Latvia. They rent it out and claim the housing benefit here.