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AIBU?

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Original poster

Brexit rage

706 replies

holeinyourhead · 06/07/2016 18:52

What's happened in the last 10 days has really affected me. It's all I think about tbh and I feel so enraged at seeing the politicians lie to us so lavishly then bail on us so swiftly, yet I'm completely powerless to do anything. I marched, I wrote to my MP, I've signed petitions. I'm obviously one of the 48% who wanted to remain. I can't find fault with the 52% who voted to leave, it's not their fault. It's a democratic process, I understand that of course. Everyone's entitled to their view and it's not that I'm a sore loser. But the catastrophic fallout isn't what even the most hardline leave voter would have wished for, there's no Brexit plan, and the future looks very bleak. I was at a conference today and a Conservative MP and a Brussels Eurocrats both agreed a recession in the medium term is now inevitable. People around me seem to be getting on with things - I wish I could too - but I've been very tearful and sleepless and worried sick. I run a European business just out of start up phase, employing a handful of people who by chance are not British born and who are now very nervous themselves about the future. The more I read the more hopeless I feel with each passing resignation. AIBU to feel like this? Does anyone else feel the same? Am I going nuts?!! I feel very alone.

OP posts:
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6
beetroot2 · 06/07/2016 22:33

Well cosmic I'm not talking to you.. Rude!

ilovesooty · 06/07/2016 22:33

Cosmic I expect she'll tell you that she doesn't have to explain herself to you.

allegretto · 06/07/2016 22:34

Tulips - it was not a democratic vote.

StrictlyMumDancing · 06/07/2016 22:34

Democracy:
the belieff* in freedommand equalityy between peoplee, or a systemm of governmenttbasedd on this belieff, in which powerr is either heldd* by electeddrepresentativess or directlyy* by the peoplee* themselves:

Nothing in that definition says you have to just suck it up. In fact it suggests my voice is as equal as the next persons. Unless I missued the terms and conditions of the referendum where I gave up my rights and freedoms.

Democratic governance is a concept, not an absolute defined entity.

beetroot2 · 06/07/2016 22:34

No I don't sooty same way I don't have to explain myself to you. You're both rude.

RufusTheReindeer · 06/07/2016 22:34

Wish more people on these threads would use the word 'some' more often

Some remainers are....

Some brexiters are.....

StrictlyMumDancing · 06/07/2016 22:35

Well that was a massive copy and paste fail Confused

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2016 22:36

The democratic process has NOT run its full course yet.

The referendum was a gauge of national opinion. It was never legally binding. It creates a very strong and undeniable case for leaving the EU.

However, its not that simple.

If only because there is no consensus on what we do next.
There is no agreement what 'not in Europe' looks like.

The government has a public mandate for 'Leave' yet what leave actually resembles is not clear. which is quite frankly bonkers Mainly because there were at least general schools of thought put forward by those campaigning for leaving.

Therefore there is a real problem. One of democracy, and one which requires both the government and public to participate in further.

The conversation did not start and end with that cross in a box.

We need to have a democratic answer to what 'Leave' means. This includes hearing what Remainers feel is the best 'leave' solution on offer.

The issue is far, far from resolved. There are also various legal and constitutional hurdles that need to be dealt with and overcome.

So anyone talking about toys and prams, can you kindly put your own back, so can we ALL have a grown up conversation on the matter because we need to have one.

Brexit might mean brexit. But what does Brexit actually mean?

Oh. Yeah. No one knows.

Bit of a bugger isn't it?

ilovesooty · 06/07/2016 22:36

What was it you said about toys and prams beetroot?

I suspect you're not explaining or responding simply because you can't.

BlowingThroughTheJasmineinMyMi · 06/07/2016 22:36

To be fair had remain won, I think the same excuses would be trotted out - they voted for lies, they dont know what they are voting for, they are sheep, they are short sighted and so on.

However I think we would be seeing more anger on the streets because so many people were already at fever pitch anger at the way things were going.

I am thankful Leave won, and I hope people calm down soon and we all move on. Op I understand your fear, I really do. I would have felt terrified had we remained. Terrified. This is all natural in a democracy with checks and balances. We should remain thankful we have been allowed such a vote as this. In fact my thoughts did turn to places like Zimbabwe, North Korea and so on.
We really are a brilliant Nation, we should all be proud even though the vote may not have gone your way. Smile

RedToothBrush · 06/07/2016 22:37

*at least three general schools of thought

beetroot2 · 06/07/2016 22:37

Not going to get into a slanging match with you Sooty but will continue to read the thread with interest.

Helmetbymidnight · 06/07/2016 22:39

We would all be proud?!

Yeah, right.

GrumpyMcGrumpFace · 06/07/2016 22:39

I am having to really force myself to concentrate on work etc. Our lives were really based on having freedom of movement in the EU, bilingual DC and we've lived all over the place. I wanted the same for my DC (not to mention the fee free German uni places!) and I am gutted that we voted that away.

The EU has been blamed for so many of society's ills - and I do think those ills need addressed, I'm not at all belittling those problems and the Leave voters were not wrong to be very angry (those who were voting on that basis, which seems to be a lot). But it wasn't the EU wot did it, the EU did a huge amount that was positive and most especially in many of the poorest parts of the UK. So my anger isn't directed at Leave voters, it's at the liars who took them in. It wasn't just in this campaign, the blaming and ridiculing of the EU has been going on for years. My memories don't go back before Jacques Delors, but even as a kid I remember being shocked at the way he was ridiculed in the British Press.

I totally sympathise and empathise with the continuing shock and grief over this awful decision. Each day seems to bring more bad news. And it's not media bias, the free fall of the pound, the drop in the value of house builder and supermarket shares etc etc, it's not made up.

BlowingThroughTheJasmineinMyMi · 06/07/2016 22:39

The government has a public mandate for 'Leave' yet what leave actually resembles is not clear. which is quite frankly bonkers

Leave is going to be defined by negotiate though, so how can you have a plan for that before you negotiate?

I am surprised at some comments I really am. I always thought if remain won, we are with the status quo superficially of course, as we have no idea what the EU will become, however should we leave, leave is not a political party, it will be something that is decided?

BlowingThroughTheJasmineinMyMi · 06/07/2016 22:39

The government has a public mandate for 'Leave' yet what leave actually resembles is not clear. which is quite frankly bonkers

Leave is going to be defined by negotiation though, so how can you have a plan for that before you negotiate?

I am surprised at some comments I really am. I always thought if remain won, we are with the status quo superficially of course, as we have no idea what the EU will become, however should we leave, leave is not a political party, it will be something that is decided?

ilovesooty · 06/07/2016 22:40

No one said anything about a slanging match except you.

If you were remotely capable of justifying your stance you would.

crossroads3 · 06/07/2016 22:40

Remainers are Neo-Liberals, I get that. The Remain campaign was all about big business, bankers, political establishment, elites. Many had a vested interest in remaining in the EU.

Erm no. I voted remain and would describe myself as slightly left of centre - certainly not neo-liberal. In fact the leave vote has now moved our government further to the right and into the hands of neo-liberals who will make Cameron look like a Blairite Confused.

365isalot · 06/07/2016 22:40

I am happy to say this is the only 'place' ive ever encountered Leave voters, never met a single one and nor has anyone i know. I was completely baffled by the result because i didn't believe such blinkered people existed. Part of my grief and shock has been due to my sudden realisation that so many of these people are in the country i thought I loved. I didn't know and it makes me deeply sad .

BlowingThroughTheJasmineinMyMi · 06/07/2016 22:42

ut it wasn't the EU wot did it, the EU did a huge amount that was positive and most especially in many of the poorest parts of the UK

I am sorry but I really do not know how you can say this.

I am afraid you would find it was/is the most poorest parts that have been hit the worst because it was a large % of very poor people coming from the EU who settled in......POOR AREAS.

GrumpyMcGrumpFace · 06/07/2016 22:42

We're not a "brilliant nation". We are a group of individuals on one rock, next to lots of other individuals on a much larger rock. All these individuals are neither better nor worse than us. We would all be better if we worked together, learnt from each other, built things together. Cutting ourselves off makes us weaker economically, culturally and morally.

StrictlyMumDancing · 06/07/2016 22:43

Wrt neo liberalism, nearly all the pro brexit economic models are based on a hefty amount of neo liberalism. But maybe it's ok when it's our neo liberalism

GrumpyMcGrumpFace · 06/07/2016 22:43

I'm not sure where you live Blowing - I'm in NE England and it's striking how little immigration there is. Understandably because there are very few jobs! Housing is really cheap, so you might think that would be attractive, but no. No jobs, no immigration. Which does make sense...

PurplePetals · 06/07/2016 22:44

YANBU. Those saying it doesn't matter if some businesses fail because it's the inevitable fallout for the greater good had better start thinking about how much more tax they're willing to pay to support those who will be unemployed as a result.
The country may well eventually recover, but it will be a long and uncertain road.
We vacillate between sticking around to see it through, and thinking 'fuck it, we're off' (we have a job offer elsewhere). We've lived through three recessions (high interest rates and two lots of negative equity) - it's getting a bit tedious and tiring now.

Cosmiccreepers203 · 06/07/2016 22:45

OP- I agree on the rage. I've never argued with people online in my life. Somehow I find I can't stay quiet anymore about this. In someways I hope the optimists are right and things are ok. But I don't really believe it to be true.
The biggest lesson from this is that we need to be more open and have better debates BEFORE key votes. So many on my friends that were remain voters talk about regretting not being more vocal before the vote. I'm done being a shy liberal. Just keep on debating and challenging misconceptions where ever you find them. Hopefully we'll win through in the end.