Brexit rage

[holeinyourhead]

What's happened in the last 10 days has really affected me. It's all I think about tbh and I feel so enraged at seeing the politicians lie to us so lavishly then bail on us so swiftly, yet I'm completely powerless to do anything. I marched, I wrote to my MP, I've signed petitions. I'm obviously one of the 48% who wanted to remain. I can't find fault with the 52% who voted to leave, it's not their fault. It's a democratic process, I understand that of course. Everyone's entitled to their view and it's not that I'm a sore loser. But the catastrophic fallout isn't what even the most hardline leave voter would have wished for, there's no Brexit plan, and the future looks very bleak. I was at a conference today and a Conservative MP and a Brussels Eurocrats both agreed a recession in the medium term is now inevitable. People around me seem to be getting on with things - I wish I could too - but I've been very tearful and sleepless and worried sick. I run a European business just out of start up phase, employing a handful of people who by chance are not British born and who are now very nervous themselves about the future. The more I read the more hopeless I feel with each passing resignation. AIBU to feel like this? Does anyone else feel the same? Am I going nuts?!! I feel very alone.

That's not laws, its policies.

Not sure what you mean by moving the Eu, but if you think food prices are artificially high now, just wait what the plummeting pound will do,

Why is Britain involved in dealing with Spanish and Greek unemployment? What's that got to do with Britain leaving the EU?

Terrys - not read the whole post yet but I think that we may work in the same industry. If so, I don't think that people, MPs included, realise that a large EU organisation is based in the UK with all of the advantages that brings. Also the affect that leaving will have on the cost and availability of new products.

I don't feel that the referendum should have ever been run because the public didn't have enough information/knowledge to vote accurately. I voted remain based on my personal knowledge but it could be argued that was based on just one industry and I was wrong. This situation created a void where politicians with their own agendas were able to jump in and manipulate the public's opinions, leaving to the position thst we are in now.

"leading to the position..."

Why is Britain involved in dealing with Spanish and Greek unemployment? What's that got to do with Britain leaving the EU?

It is evidence of significant problems in the EU, if Britain is in the EU it is therefore a concern.

You are not alone. I have alternated between tears, despair, hopelessness since the result. Am the angriest I have ever been that we have been used as pawns in a political game that went wrong. Don't even get me started on the Leave rats all jumping from the sinking ship and DC.
I feel a lot of anger at family members that voted leave for the stupid mentality of we want our country back and for believing every lie that the daily fail prints. I can't believe they chose this destructive path for us and can't forgive them and the leave brigade for choosing thisDIY recession and causing all the political and economic chaos.
I feel like I am living a nightmare that isn't going to end. I loved my country (hence my username - needs a d adding now) but may consider emigration.
If Boris (who was a remainer up to Feb 2016) had a decent bone in his body, he would admit he made the worst mistake ever and campaign for a General election so we can overturn this crazy mistake by voting in a party with a remain manifesto.

"We want our country back" - in the 1930s?

Why would it mean in the 1930s? Except for not being connected to a plan for an EU superstate? Brexit is about moving forwards as an independent country, and outwards to the rest of the world, while the EU is still doggedly implementing its plans from the early 20th century.

while the EU is still doggedly implementing its plans from the early 20th century

How forward thinking of them, given we were all busy blowing each other to smithereens around then.

I heard back from my MP: he's quoting "The Will Of The People" and how we cannot go against that.

All very well, but my MP is Jeremy Hunt, who is currently riding roughshod over "The Will Of The People" by forcing through his plans for the NHS

Having just watched Panorama I have to find somewhere to rant. I generally thought this might finally make me feel there was a real point. Ridiculous metaphors such as "sticking ingredients in a pot" have me full of rage. This was not the EU's doing - this was a lack of planning and spending by OUR GOVERNMENT, who, by the way were happy for buisinesses to pay lower wages to immigrants. What annoyed me even more was that nearly everyone they spoke to was on the list for a council house - the idea being that if the Poles weren't on the list they would be better off. So, the poles who work and pay tax don't deserve a house but you want an upgrade because you continue to have children knowing you have no job and a house that is too small? I am sorry? This country has a serious divide between those who work, those who don't and want to and those who don't and want more than they need for doing bugger all. All I could see watching that were people who were never likely to put into society, getting a lot for nothing and moaning because they had do to something to get what they think they should just naturally get.

Before this I have always said I love the NHS, I love that everyone gets free care when they need it, I would rather live in a country with a welfare state to help those down on their luck in need.

Now this has me very torn on that. I am about 80% feeling fuck the lot of them. They have voted for US to do the fucking hard work, US to pull them up out of the shit. THEIR hopes and dreams have not been squandered because they don't want to live in Paris or Rome or have ideas that their kids might one day get to Uni and want to use and EU research grant or travel. They want US to fund Wales and Sunderland and every other area where the EU was subsidising. THEY want to sit back and wait for a fucking council house and get the working immigrants out.

I know I am ranting. I half hate what I am saying. Half of me wants to bring back national service. I strongly believe there will be war in under 20 years time now that we've dug the nail into the EU. We are going to need all the defence we can get.

The irony, Tanith. Actually, scrap that - the sheer hypocrisy.

I failed to write to my MP. I have to confess I was all geared up - then I listened to Cameron's speech in the commons, and I just knew it was pointless. My MP is Michael Fallon - he'll say exactly the same as Hunt.

I had a horrible realisation the other day too. I have a very real fear that everything/anything that goes wrong in the future will be blamed on Brexit.

We'll be told as a nation that "this was your choice, XYZ has happened because of Brexit."

We have essentially handed the Government "something to blame failure on" for the next few decades.

Well, we need a scapegoat now after we've given up the EU!
Of course things are going to be shit - we've been told we're going back into recession, food and petrol prices are going up. We have no human rights to speak of already (UN report on UK was hidden) and we are now getting a PM (either of which) has interest in oil - see Iraq war for further info - and both want snoopers charter, less human rights (such as maternity pay and paid holiday leave) and one even wants to ban gay marriage again. This is not going forward, unless you are in the top tier who own large businesses and can see how we can now exploit trade with countries who have such poor human rights track levels we look like angels.

By the 1930s, I meant the rise of the far right.

I was attracted to this thread because I feed saddened and depressed by the result, particularly due to impact that it will have on the industry that my partner and I work in - careerwise, personally, we should be okay but the general public will be affected. However, I'm not angry at out voters because everyone is entitled to their opinion and the result has highlighted that there is a lot wrong in this country, politicians have become arrogant, and politicial and social change is urgently required - I just wish that it wasn't at the expense of EU membership.

That is the point though, isn't it? Who is going to pay for Wales now? How can we possibly survive with the people living on nothing and generations of welfare users with no skills? Yes our Gov got us into this, but the EU was propping us up. I seriously fear that a lot of liberals (which I would count myself as, despite this rant) have now got to come to terms with the fact we simply cannot continue to have these people do nothing. They now have to get off their arses and work. Disabilities should be the only thing that is allowed to be annually renewed on welfare. Depression - 6 months, for eg. We are going to have to set limits on what people can claim, whether they have to have worked prior to claiming etc. I don't think it is a nice way to go, but we really can't keep the NHS going without some huge change in the bottom. I wish it would come from the top - taxing the rich, but let's face it that is never going to happen.

Jeffrey

THEIR hopes and dreams have not been squandered because they don't want to live in Paris or Rome or have ideas that their kids might one day get to Uni and want to use and EU research grant or travel. They want US to fund Wales and Sunderland and every other area where the EU was subsidising. THEY want to sit back and wait for a fucking council house and get the working immigrants out.

I get you. I feel exactly the same way. And I hate myself for it... I used to hate the inequalities that exist in our society. But now I don't give a fuck. OH and I paid nearly £100k in tax last year. He works overseas most of the time (mainly in Europe), I work and look after our DC's, and often work until the early hours of the morning on my MBA. To give our family even better prospects. Nothing in this life gets handed to you on a plate. But even if the impact of Brexit is as bad as we think, then we will mainly be shielded from the worst of it, we are unlikely to be made redundant or lose our house. But will I give a shit about brexit voting factory workers being made redundant, or more benefits being cut? Well, it pains me to say it and I hope I won't always feel this way... but no I fucking won't. They will have brought it on themselves, in a spiteful attempt to bring everyone else down with them. How can this have been allowed to happen.

Basically, this whole mess really has absolutely nothing to do with the EU.

Smiling thank you - I feel so horrible for the way I feel but I need to admit it. I think this race to the bottom is all the country is going to amount to. It is so depressing to think that the Tories will win out again in this - in that they get libs to convert into their way of thinking purely by giving the people not paying taxes the right to vote in what is essentially a trade and law agreement of which they can know little about. I understand that they were the master brains behind dividing our country into haves and have not's but when they give the voice to the have not's they really should have had the barrel of the gun facing their own chest - not the EU. It is shit but sadly now we are in this mess there is no way to turn other than to cut the people reliant on the state in some way. Where do I vote for that to be done as humanely as possible? There is no option currently.

And when it is still crap in 5 Years the leave camp will find someone else to blame.

Too true, owlcat. We've basically allowed the EU to be scapegoated, and handed the government a Get Out of Jail Free card for the future.

This is the society that has been created by politicians that are completely out of touch with real life, Cameron, Blair and their predecessors.

Oh yes - the delayed reaction of the blissfully ignorant.
It will still be the tories they blame, but then who comes next? Labour? How the hell are they going to fix a broken country with no money and no industry? How can they set up industry with no money?
What I fear most is the rise of UKIP - so many people who voted leave were UKIP or far right Tories. If we get another coalition it will be hideous. I would honestly leave the country then. I wish Farage had explained all about what would be needed from the worker ants should UK leave EU. The scrapping of welfare/NHS etc. It will have to happen now. It may well have had to happen before, but as we were coming out of a recession thee was still hope. Now we can only count the years, unless we get a vastly new strategy on dealing with people refusing to pay back into the system.

Who knows, maybe medicare is a good way to go?

i have had very similar conversations in the last couple of weeks Jeffrey and Smiling, but about Brexit-voting pensioners too. Many of my colleagues with small children and big mortgages are very bitter indeed that their parents (mostly middle-class country-dwellers who've never seen an immigrant) voted out. Not seeing much appetite to keep paying for their triple-locked pensions and geriatric care costs (the main strain on the NHS, and that's without the million-odd OAPs who could be repatriated from Spain and France as we expel young, healthy workers). Which may come as a something of a shock to them.

Well, maybe now is the time to admit defeat on NHS and adopt Aus style medicare. Those who are working pay into the pot and get served and those who don't just don't. Pensioners need to have something saved for their ill health costs, welfare lot can decide if they really should get pissed up and in a brawl on weekends or whether to have their 6th child. The rest of us should be covered.

Maybe that should be the first plan of any potential campaign? I think if they explained why we can't keep it up and used Brexit, many remainers would see this is the end result and actually find it doesn't affect them directly. I fear the leavers would be the ones woefully underprepared for that shift. Nurses would go back to being funded to train due to rise in positions and wages coming in, hospitals would have a complete idea of their income in advance, no cuts or changes in directive by subsequent governments...