Brexit rage

[holeinyourhead]

What's happened in the last 10 days has really affected me. It's all I think about tbh and I feel so enraged at seeing the politicians lie to us so lavishly then bail on us so swiftly, yet I'm completely powerless to do anything. I marched, I wrote to my MP, I've signed petitions. I'm obviously one of the 48% who wanted to remain. I can't find fault with the 52% who voted to leave, it's not their fault. It's a democratic process, I understand that of course. Everyone's entitled to their view and it's not that I'm a sore loser. But the catastrophic fallout isn't what even the most hardline leave voter would have wished for, there's no Brexit plan, and the future looks very bleak. I was at a conference today and a Conservative MP and a Brussels Eurocrats both agreed a recession in the medium term is now inevitable. People around me seem to be getting on with things - I wish I could too - but I've been very tearful and sleepless and worried sick. I run a European business just out of start up phase, employing a handful of people who by chance are not British born and who are now very nervous themselves about the future. The more I read the more hopeless I feel with each passing resignation. AIBU to feel like this? Does anyone else feel the same? Am I going nuts?!! I feel very alone.

Trade deficits (and leave campaign's use of statistics…)
www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/after-brexit-how-important-would-uk-trade-be-eu#.V35AzenalEd

Don't actually read news papers but why do you believe foreign news print but say that UK news print is made up? If that is what you meant by calling our news "stories"

Newspapers and other media around Europe are not reporting that there is wide support for leaving the EU in their own countries. Many polls have been run in many countries, with few polls attracting above 35% support for leaving the EU. (The Ipsos Mori puts a few countries above this level, though.)

Yet some newspaper stories in the UK (in the Leave camp) imply that there is widespread support in other European countries for leaving the EU. I do not believe that they are accurately reporting the current evidence and polling data from other countries. I particularly do not believe UK newspaper claims about one specific country in which I live part of the time and in which I have family.

and polls are always right.

It's very easy to see why people voted to leave, particularly when you look at the geographical voting patterns. The Majority of Leave votes came from areas of the country that have seen their major industries destroyed over the past 40 years. Mining, Steel, Automotive and lots more have moved to cheaper countries with lower wages and the moves were in many cased funded through EU money. These people live in deprived communities where unemployment is high and skilled jobs are low. I have heard many people argue that these are the same areas that receive the bulk of the EU funding, however what they forget is that building a fancy boulevard, funding a university campus etc has precisely zero impact on their household income. What they want are jobs that pay them a living wage. All they see is their industries have moved abroad and they are competing with people from all over the EU for the few that are left.

I think there is a belief that we may be able to create more jobs in the UK post brexit, that we can be more competitive (rightly or wrongly). The current devaluation of the pound will likely have a positive effect as our goods will become much cheaper to export to the rest of the world - TATA steel have put their plans to sell the rest of their steel operations because for various reasons, production of steel in the UK has become more cost effective.
I have no idea what the net result of Brexit will be, I have spoke to people who voted remain & leave, some of the leave people work in the city and everyone agrees there will be uncertainty for some time but it is too soon to predict doom and gloom.
I keep my fingers crossed

I didn't say that polls are accurate.

I said that there is a discrepancy between what UK (Leave) newspapers and European newspapers (across the political spectrum). If a whole series of different polls are reported in e.g. the Dutch press, which all put leaving the EU as disfavoured, then the UK press should not suggest that Holland will be next to leave the EU without also reporting that polls in Holland do not concur with this view.

Where is any press report in the UK that indicates the Netherlands will be next!!!

The Express have run a series of them. As have the Sun. The Guardian has suggested growing favour.

express from February

I have heard many people argue that these are the same areas that receive the bulk of the EU funding, however what they forget is that building a fancy boulevard, funding a university campus etc has precisely zero impact on their household income.

But the latter is not accurate. EU funding does not fund university campuses: it funds university projects and staff. Loss of research funding (together with loss of international students and loss of contracts from the EU) means job losses at the university, not just academic jobs but support jobs in maintenance, catering etc (which go to local people). It means a loss of money to the local economy, as international student numbers drop - so less students to rent houses, to buy food in convenience stores or take away places, to buy from shops.

Universities are one of our most successful "exports" and the loss of international students affects our economy badly. Universities are already bracing themselves for far lower enrolments of international students (prospective students are withdrawing). Many universities have frozen hiring already, and are hence cancelling capital investment such as renovations and building work (which then affects local workers).

Can absolutely see now (that was one of the things I've learnt) that people in areas with fancy shopping boulevards or new train stations who are jobless and struggling might be infuriated with the presence of massive EU funding that has no relevance in their lives. If they connect that to the 'we give 350 million a week to the EU' message, not unreasonable that be a motivation to vote leave. But that money won't be coming anywhere near them if we vote for Tory governments.

The Majority of Leave votes came from areas of the country that have seen their major industries destroyed over the past 40 years. Mining, Steel, Automotive and lots more have moved to cheaper countries with lower wages and the moves were in many cased funded through EU money. These people live in deprived communities where unemployment is high and skilled jobs are low.

Some of the top leave areas, Thurrock, Basildon, Castlepoint are on my doorstep, I assure you, they have not been destroyed. They are working class areas, yes, conservative or UKIP voting, where unemployment is low and immigration is even lower.

I have spoken to lots of people from there. Their reasons for voting leave include too many Syrians, too many Iraqis, too many Muslims. Or they want lower house prices.

If you are looking at geographical patterns, then why not look at age patterns too? Young people voted remain. Older people voted out.

But hey, the disenfranchised versus elites narrative is so much more appealing.

It's so frustrating that the thing wasn't even binding yet they're spineless enough to act as if it is...

This is really getting to me too.

Swansea University's recently constructed bay campus was part funded by the EU development fund.

www.swansea.ac.uk/campus-development/baycampus/informationonkeybuildings/engineeringeast/

esornep I agree 100% with you BTW.

Yes, I agree that campuses have been funded by the EU development funds, but the bulk of EU funding for universities being discussed in the media is not this.

However: there is virtually no money for campus redevelopment from the UK government. Universities are reliant on either EU development funds or loans, the latter being harder to get, now that their credit ratings have been cut. So out of the EU expect less campus redevelopment -> less jobs for local construction firms from universities.

How the hell can people vote out because of Muslims, Iraqis and Syrians? My geoeconomic knowledge isn't good but they aren't part of Europe!

Well exactly.

glue I said that to my dps who had that argument for leave and are in a high brexit vote but hardly immigration hit area. I explained that Syrians and Iraqis do not have free right of movement so are subject to our own controls. They looked at me and fervently believe that the EU make us accept these people against our will, that as soon as they manage to enter Italy or somewhere then we aren't allowed to refuse them. I know others local to where I live also believe this.

Having said that I live local to helmet it seems so it's likely we are talking about a similar pool of people. I don't live local to my dps though so it's not just a strange Essex/east London view

Helmetbymidnight This certainly adds weight to the don't hold a general election argument. We'll get even more UKIP.

Oh I know of some who voted leave because they wanted the country to go back to 1950 and produce all our own stuff. They are also the sort whose parents grandparents and great grandparents were born and lived there and they never leave the village, hate anything 'forrin' and thinks anyone who isn't pasty skinned needs to be treated with suspicion.

Yanbu.

Lol at " rocky few weeks". Try a decade or more likely a generation.

Re Netherlands, also this www.nltimes.nl/2016/06/06/majority-dutch-want-stay-part-eu/

But having seen what has happened in the UK, suspect the Netherlands and other EU countries will not have the appetite for this. Polling has proved useless in predicting outcomes in RL.

I was about to start a thread saying 'AIBU to still be mad at all the people who voted to leave'. and then I saw this thread - so I don't need to create one.

I am not being all doom and gloom. There is a glimmer of hope - the UK might come out better (MIGHT) but we are talking 7-10 years from now.

For now it will be 7-10 years of struggle, recession, tax increases, welfare cuts. Lasting recession will mean there is no extra money to give to the NHS.

I personally think we will suffer all this pain only to have a scheme like Norway where we get nothing from the EU other than trade/movement and STILL have to pay in something. It will be all the negatives of the EU without any of the positives - we will truly be called a nation of morons then.

The only thing that will make me feel better is if after we are fully out of the EU the Eurozone collapses and everyone is bailing out France or Spain or Italy. Only then will everyone think it is a lucky escape.

Tighten your belts everyone. It is going to be a very rocky uncertain few years that noone can predict.

I am annoyed with DC and the conservatives who let such a farce happen. I didn't vote conservative and I didn't vote leave. How could the referendum have happened when it was not clear (and still isn't) exactly what the leave vote entails. No matter what people's issues are with the EU (and admittedly there are quite a few), this wasn't the way to deal with them!!! The fact that DC left instead of sticking around has made our country look totally incompetent! Though he is so bloody hesitant about everything that he would be a nightmare negotiating us out of the EU. Never thought I would say this but I will be glad if Teresa May gets in just to give some leadership and direction.

The media in this country does us no favours to be honest as it gives fools like Gove, Boris and Farage far too much airtime. Plus rooting around to get the dirt on PM candidates doesn't really help at this moment in time.

I am seeing small effects already ie bad exchange rate for hols means we are losing hundreds of pounds, work share save scheme has gone down meaning it has nearly halved in value and counting! I am worried for both mine and my partner's jobs too. So I expect everyone else is too.

Conservatives have proved to be the 'most unsafe pair of hands' ever!!! All those cuts they made are a drop in the ocean now!!!