Is this casual racism on my mums part? Aibu in thinking so?

[Dinosaur1991]

My mum works in a big supermarket so obviously serves many customers a day. Yesterday she said that 99% of polish people she serves are rude and ignorant, very much implying that this is how she feels about Polish people in general. She doesn't think there's anything wrong with this as it's just her opinion and got huffy with me when I said I don't want it said around my son. Is she being slightly racist or am I massively overreacting?

We had a Spanish teacher who would say her Spanish grandparents thought it very funny how much her english mum had taught her to say please and thank you.

I always think of this.

Eigg there's a difference between not speaking a language you know and not speaking because you don't know the language. I said I don't speak English in public and I don't speak it in private when we have guests that don't understand it. It makes people feel uncomfortable. I can see why MrsJayy's mum finds it rude.

PassiveAgressiveQueen My husband is not Spanish but similar and takes the piss out of us at the dinner table because the kids and I all say please and thank you too much. He always laughs and says "We're not having lunch with the queen you know". It's ok here to say "I would like" or "I wouldn't like" or "No" and just "Pass me the mustard". My colleagues find it funny that I always say "please" and "thank you" as well. English are over polite in this area, even more so than other English speakers like Americans who can sound quite abrubt when they respond to questions like "What would you like to drink?" - "Water" .....I always want to say "What's the magic word?"

dizzy I agree that it would be rude in front of guests or colleagues but in front of a shop worker who you are interacting with for a matter of minutes?

My DH and I both speak enough French to get by, if we were working in France or had French friends staying we'd speak French.

But we most assuredly don't discuss who is paying for the shopping or whether we need another bag in French at the checkout of the Supermarket.

When speaking to the cashier I'd use French of course.

validusername they sound nice, ime having lived in Budapest however the Hungarians aren't the most friendliest of people!

Dh is forrin, and finds the constant pleases and thank yous here quite annoying, but he understands the cultural significance and so upholds it. If he wasn't married to me he probably wouldn't understand how important it is. In contrast when I asked my mil, in her language, 'may I have a little more tea please' she laughed and told me just to bang my cup on the table if I wanted more . I find this impossible.
I do think your mothers reaction is understandable if she has not travelled much and experiences the differing etiquettes of different cultures, but it does need challenging. Could you say to her some of the things which have been said on here to help her understand?

I think it's different when you are living in a country and speak fluently. Not speaking the local language or intergrating can be very isolating and difficult.

It also depends on the culture. If you live in a big city it is probably less of a big deal, in London for example you can go into a shop and no one will even speak to you. In a village in Dorset that would be considered odd and rude. I live in a small town in a culture that is very socially orientated. To not engage with a shop assistant or for a shop assistant to not fully engage with a customer is considered a social faux pas.

Yes it is really hard to learn the language at all, let alone speak with accurate cultural nuance.
I will never forget the six months i spent in a Spanish village where all the shops were tiny and trying to do an essential thing like top up my phone was a nightmare....
Or trying to get a haircut in a Greek hairdressers...
So we should cut em some slack...

It drives me bonkers on the phone when a customer mid conversation suddenly says something unintelligible and I politely ask them what they said and they say "I was talking to my wife" and I realise they had switched language to do it.

All the bilingual families I know (who live in Britain) have a house rule that when non speakers of English are present everyone including the kids speak English (although if a child of the family does something really naughty they might get an earful in the other language).

Speaking in a language that people present can't understand is rude in a social or business setting but equally I think it's just as rude to be talking on a mobile whilst been served in a shop. I've seen shop staff refuse to serve them til they get off the phone and I wish they'd all do it.

Trafalgar child development/language experts recommend "one parent one language"

it's not rude, it's the right way to raise a bilingual child
and non bilingual children benefit form the language exposure too if their friends parents speak another language on front of them

Oops messed that up and said the opposite (got interrupted by OH asking why I'd eaten the last slice of Swiss roll) I meant use English when visitors don't speak the other language of course.

OP, is she perhaps mistaking "deadpan" for rude?

the actual words are the easy part, it's all the little cultural mannerisms and quirks that are hardest to learn in a second country

Yes my ex is bilingual. German was the home language both parents were fluent. English spoken when anyone none family present. Worked brilliantly until OH started school and realised everyone didn't speak two languages and refused to speak German at all lol

There is no one right way to raise bilingual children ........different ways work better for different families and situations.

Of course there is, but OPOL is the default that's recommended, other hings work for individuals in practice

I like hearing my friends mother tongues, I like my kids getting free language exposure on playdates, extra curricular language exposur classes costs £60-£120 per term!

There is no one right way to raise bilingual children ........different ways work better for different families and situations.

Exactly. One parent, one language is a lovely concept but it only works 100% if there is only one parent and one child. It also doesn't matter if you mix languages, it does not confuse children as previously thought. My children put people into categories. Either one language or the other and some who speak fluent in both they will happily speak to in either. Chopping and changing with their mood and situation.

That's different, if it's done differently because it actually works, great
but if it's not practiced for mainly the sentiment that it's "rude" to not speak english in company, then I disagree

I don't feel exluded if friends slip in and out of their own language on front of me, I feel included in their normal daily lives (and you can tell by mannerisms and tone if they're saying something boring like "did you remember to pick up bog roll and milk?")

German was the home language both parents were fluent. English spoken when anyone none family present. Worked brilliantly until OH started school and realised everyone didn't speak two languages and refused to speak German at all lol

well that's probably the reason he refused - why bother, if parents are fine to speak either.

It's really, really hard to raise a bi-lingual child if you are pretty much the only person around who speaks the language. Unless you keep insisting that your child communicates with you in that language only, it's in my opinion, pretty much impossible. Of course they will otherwise take the easier way out and speak the language of the country.

Sorry , haven't read the entire thread, but NikiSaintPhalle is making excellent points. I used to teach English to the Spanish in Dublin and included remembering to say "please" and "thank you" a hundred times in every interaction as an essential language skill because the Spanish just do not have that in their culture, making them seem rude to English speakers.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05pbwjp

For anyone interested in cultural language differences this is a really interesting and funny programme from radio 4 about the potential language pitfalls for people moving to England from abroad.

YABU, I just asked my Polish friends about this and they said some Polish people can be a bit rude. Also, if they dont speak English very well they may come across rude unwittingly. I used to live in north Spain and when I first moved there I thought the people were so rude because they never say please or thank you, or even Hello in the coffee shops - I soon realised that it is their culture and for them it is not rude, just how they are.
I have a lot Polish friends and they are hard working, funny people. Of course you cant generalise, but I think it may be a culture clash, or lack of language skills.

Just seen Atenco's post - Spanish do not say please, thank you, or hello! you go to a bar and they say: what do you want? or, sometimes just nod at you without a word. and never say please when asking for money. Just how they are. the Russians are the same.

" , I like my kids getting free language exposure on playdates, extra curricular language exposur classes costs £60-£120 per term! "

oh please, do stop with that. What a lot of unpleasant nonsense.

What's unpleasant about liking hearing friends speak in their mother tongue? it's interesting

and what's unpleasant with liking your kids being able to hear other languages from a young age? I can't provide that at home for them, it's nice that they get it in friends homes

On the other hand I know people who think OPOL is rude but spend a fortune on baby french and primary mandarin… that's unpleasantly hypocritical

I think it may be a cultural difference which she is misinterpreting.

I live in an area with very little cultural diversity. When Polish people first began moving to our area I found some of them very abrupt compared to the English, not smiley and also very direct which, generally, was not a problem but, occasionally, could come across as rude and demanding.

Now we are further down the line and all more used to each other I don't see those problems any more

I don't think your Mum is being intentionally racist and is speaking based on her experiences but she could be more aware of cultural differences. Good luck trying to educate her!