Is this casual racism on my mums part? Aibu in thinking so?

[Dinosaur1991]

My mum works in a big supermarket so obviously serves many customers a day. Yesterday she said that 99% of polish people she serves are rude and ignorant, very much implying that this is how she feels about Polish people in general. She doesn't think there's anything wrong with this as it's just her opinion and got huffy with me when I said I don't want it said around my son. Is she being slightly racist or am I massively overreacting?

I actually think it is rude MrsJayy I live in another country and I try to avoid speaking English to my husband/children when there are other people about. It is rude to talk in front of people who may or may not know what you are saying. It makes people feel uncomfortable.

Yes it's racist and slightly ignorant.

Tell her to go spend a week in Hungary if she thinks the Polish are rude!

Dizzy I agree, I never ever speak my language when english speaking people are around. I will always switch, my son does too

Lndnmummy. I know, I'd never thought of it until I've had a Dutch friend point it out.

The worst bit is if someone was to turn up at the door after being told to come round anytime, it would be viewed as monumentally rude for coming without an invitation!

I feel for anyone having to deal with the British. We are actually particularly bad for our cultural expectations being very learned and not straightforward.

Language is only part of the way we communicate. Cultural understanding is also a massive part of it, and the ability to offend unwittingly is greatly underestimated.

How are people so sure someone is Polish. I have worked with people from Czech Republic, Poland, Germany, Romania and Bulgaria. I only know which country they come from because they have told me.

Echelon, my Hungarian colleagues are some of the friendliest and nicest people I have come across tbh.

I can't believe people are saying 'well it's her experience'. A woman a few weeks ago said that in her experience at work older people are very rude to younger members of staff. She got torn to shreds for 'ageism'.

Op what your mum said is definitely casual racism and I don't blame your reaction.

Nope. She is saying that 99% of the Polish people she engages with at the SUPERMARKET, a small place on planet earth where she works, are rude. This is what she is experiencing in the supermarket where she works from polish people. Therefore she is implying quite simply what she has said to you, not what you're interpreting it as 'all polish people are rude'.

If your mum said 'oh I'm not fond of polish people in general, they're ALL rude, then I would say she is racist with out a doubt.

My cousin lives in Denver. When she came to visit she made many remarks about how the English shop assistants are rude and ill mannered. She was referring to those English people working in shops, cafes, pubs etc. If you have ever been to America you would know that their customer service is pretty brilliant. My cousin isn't racist against English people and your mum doesn't sound racist against polish people.

YABU.

I'm intrigued by the "pop over any time" thing. I'm born/raised English but not encountered this .

LndnMummy If you lived where I do, we'd only say that literally (with the caveat you may be turned away at the door). Do pop in any time, though. .

Recommended a zillion times on this site already but Kate Fox's "Watching the English" is a great book for looking at out cultural norms and interactions. It's very funny looking at it in an objective way.

Lots of foreigners have said to me that British people sound apologetic if asked where they are from (fair enough given the history!). And apparently English people say they are "British" whilst Scottish people make a point of saying "Scottish".

Sorry, off topic but find this subject so interesting.

Do you Dizzy the men are just chatting and they dont do it while serving customers i dont think it is rude not really

That is a fair point about the different cultural expectations of differing generations which is equally ignored on MN and lumped into the ageist category.

As usual not everyone is the same, but if you grew up with certain cultural expectations that are changing in more recent times then it is those that have the more progressive or open personality types that are more likely to have moved on whereas the more conservative personality types are more likely to have stuck closer to the cultural expectations of their youth.

This is quite an interesting op actually.

My mother's family are Polish. They came to Britain during the second world war; they were part of the "first Polish diaspora" in this country.

Since EU enlargement and Polish migrants started coming to the UK in significant numbers, there have been quite a few conversations in my family about how different the modern Polish manner is compared to the old Polish mentality of the pre-war period that was then passed down to second and third generation Poles in Britain.

My grandfather, who was a decorated Polish war veteran, believed that the experience of the second world war and Communism, along with the massacre of the backbone of the pre-war Polish establishment, deeply scarred the Polish people and fundamentally destroyed their culture, which was really quite formal and put a lot of emphasis on manners and being polite and honorable -- and was, in a sense, quite Oriental.

Apparently, the way modern Polish people speak and use the Polish language is very different to pre-war Poland -- to the extent that it came across as being abrupt and rude to older Polish members of my family.

So I would suggest that there may be something in what the op's mother is saying, but it is not because Poles are innately rude but more that the Polish people have been brutalised over the course of twentieth century history.

the Polish people have been brutalised over the course of twentieth century history

Very, very true. However I worked with a lot of Polish people 10 years back and they were fantastic craic (big generalisation) so the have been able to keep a teeny bit of spirit subsequently too.

I think there is a danger in viewing something as "casual racism" when, in fact, what you are seeing is a valid cultural phenomenon with very good reasons behind it.

For example, the Lebanese in Lebanon are, as a whole, rather wary and suspicious of foreigners. Now one could say "the Lebanese are xenophobic", but what you would miss would be that, well, of course the Lebanese are wary of foreigners. Their country has been consistently pulled around like a rag-doll by foreigners, is subject to a lot of foreign-backed political agitators, and, yes, they are quite right to be wary that the English-speaking person in front of them could be a spy because that kind of thing actually happens in their country -- and people die because of it.

This is why I dislike the words "racism" and "racist" because they are blanket ways to ignore something that probably, in most cases, could really do with unpicking.

Having conversations in Polish, to their companions, or on the phone, is usually a give away

Yes, because OP's mum definitely can tell the difference between Polish, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Russian etc etc.

Sure

How does she know they are Polish is the real question

Just a small point regarding the speaking your own language in front of someone who doesn't = rude

How many of you speak English to your family in front of Italian/Spanish/French/German cashiers or bar staff on holiday?

Or are you all speaking to your children in Spanish while in public on holiday?

anyway there is a different culture in Poland they dont do that fake smiling and meaningless chit chat thing very well.
Also if you have English as a Second Language it is really hard to follow small talk and to use the pleasantries that people in your host country use.
So telll your mum to stick that in her pipe and smoke it......

The people who mentioned cultural differences are spot on.
I've lived in Hong Kong and when you go to McDonalds they almost slam the money down when they are giving you change. No handing it to your hand like in the UK.
Your mum would probably come across as rude in Japan where employees greet you as soon as you step in the shop. If you go to a shop when it's just opening, sometimes you're greeted with a line of employees bowing and welcoming you.
Some languages sound harsher than others. Even if you consider English, different regional accents give certain impressions. I live down south so BBC English or a South London accent sounds normal where as an Irish accent would seem exotic to my ears.

I'm 44 and my mum is 80, we manage not to be bigots. People from other countries have been part of the landscape in this country for decades. There is no excuse for racism or xenophobia, casual (whatever that means) or otherwise, from any one of any age. None.

Not rude but maybe abrupt. Could be to do with English being a second language. I teach Polish and other Eastern European teenagers and their manner is just different to ours.

How many of you speak English to your family in front of Italian/Spanish/French/German cashiers or bar staff on holiday?

Ah here, you know its only rude when the foreign types don't talk proper, like what we do!

user

user1467 of course, how silly of me.

YANBU OP. I wonder what way she voted.....?