"It's Your Body But It Will Be My Baby Too"

[picklypopcorn]

So last night DP and I were having a casual discussion about my implant which is due to be taken out next month after 3 years floating about in my arm keeping us baby free.

For context, I'm 25 and he's 27, been together 8 years with no problems and both employed although I'm the breadwinner and on a bit of an upwards thrust at work at the moment. We have a mortgage on a 2 bed house we've lived in for 2 years and yes, I have to admit we have a perfect set up for a baby... you can see where this is going.

We've had the baby discussion before and i thought we both see babies as an "in the future" type of thing..we've even discussed that DP will be a SAHD while I go back to work etc. Last night I talked about wanting to go back on the pill after the implant is taken out until my career stagnates and I'm on a bit more money... DP's reaction was massive disappointment because he'd assumed when the implant came out we'd just start "seeing what happens" and stop taking baby prevention precautions...

At one point, very amicably and there was no nastiness intended, he said "I know it's your body and career and stuff but it will be my baby too and I think we're really really ready"... I got irrationally angry inside but didn't have a go at him or anything because I know he didn't mean it to sound like it did ..

AIBU to hold back on the baby making knowing we could cope and knowing it's what DP really really wants? Am I being really selfish here? DP hasn't tried to make me feel bad about it or anything and we had a lovely evening snuggled up on the sofa but it's been churning away in my head all night. I want to have a baby too, but I'm 25 and I can't help feeling like I want to be closer to 30 and my career not to get stalled now?

How do other couples make the decision to stop taking precautions?

YY CPtart. They are also not so keen to remember "its your body" when they start moaning that their partner is still carrying baby weight

Thanks everyone :)

I think I got angry because we had this exact same discussion about a month ago (I posted about it) but DP seems to have thought I'd "come around" to the idea once implant removal time came.... bah.

Luckily we have a very strong communicative relationship and last night we sat down AGAIN and I told him how his comment made me feel and how I'm feeling like he's seeing me as his ticket to fatherhood rather than his partner... he was mortified as you can imagine.

Last time we agreed he'd study, we'd get married and then start trying for kids in a couple of years but he said last night he doesn't feel like he's capable of becoming an electrician (he's dyslexic and very self conscious about it) and he'd rather dedicate his life to raising a family which he feels is the only thing he'll be any good at apart from music (he's in a band and gets a side income from this). Just for the record he's under no illusion that this is in any way an easy option! I asked him why he went along with the idea of being an electrician last time we had this chat and he said I made him feel like he could do it right there and then, but when he started looking into it it settled on him that he doesn't feel capable. This massive lack of confidence in his ability stems from MiL who insists on "helping" him with everything because he can't possibly do it himself ... EG: He has a 2:1 degree in modern music which he absolutely slogged for. He worked his backside off for 4 years and we'd be on the phone until 2 or 3 in the morning some nights while he read his essays to me etc. Anyway, on his graduation day his mum spent the entire meal talking about how hard it had been for her and how his degree was "just as much her achievement as his" because she "dragged him through it kicking and screaming".... this is completely untrue but he now doesn't see his degree as HIS achievement

It was heartbreaking to listen to him last night because it's pretty obvious now he's lacking a purpose and he feels like raising kids would give him that. He said that in a way he wishes our genders were reversed or that our attitudes towards life were, because if he was the woman in our relationship this wouldnt seem like such a big deal. I actually agree with him on that, I think if it was me saying I want to be a SAHM while DP is the breadwinner it would be a no brainer. Anyway, I pointed out he can't give birth for me and although I'd love to be someones mum and for him to be a dad, timing is going to be vital to making it work.

It was a long chat and I feel like I understand his motives a hell of a lot more now, and I think he's accepted it's just a "not yet" rather than a "no".

For those people questioning whether I'm happy being the breadwinner: Absolutely, this is not the issue here and I am more than capable of supporting us both. I'm very happy with that situation and for the poster who said she likes her men to be her "equal"... bore off. DP is my equal in everything, just because he doesn't earn as much as me doesn't make him any less of a person

For those suggesting marriage first: We are getting married in 2018, I told DP that he'd be financially protected if we were married and I'd feel a lot better if that was the case before we have kids and he becomes a SAHD. He doesn't agree and says if he was expecting me to do a runner on him he wouldn't be suggesting kids in the first place .. i kind of made "good in theory, not so much in practice" noises

Anyway, that's where we stand. He wont be swapping my pills for tictacs once the implant comes out and we're going to try and figure out a way to build up his confidence.. anyone have any ideas? Apprenticeships aren't an option because he's over 24 and has a degree..

You sound very sensible and I get the impression you like to plan everything and feel in control. This is on the face of it a good personality trait but be aware that once you start trying for a baby and feel ready, it might not go to plan or happen straight away so bear that in mind when thinking about timescales.
For example, you may feel ready at 35yrs, take a couple of years or more to fall pregnant and then want more children and realise you're nearly 40 and don't have much time on your side.
Good luck with it all anyway, I'm sure you'll reach a compromise.

It is true you are never "ready"

I was told (by a doctor) that it was unlikely that I would have children, so when DH had run out of condoms I said "No matter" - that was DS1, we had never even discussed having children as we had purposely not allowed it to enter our minds. I had been offered a job in Brussels (a british civil servant in the EU) and it was when we went over there to check out living arrangements etc I found out I was pregnant.
Shocked didn't even come into it. I had to turn the job down as maternity leave etc wasn't part of the package then it would have been all too complicated.
Up to the day he was born I was unsettled but took to motherhood like a duck to water.

What I'm trying to say amongst all this waffle is, you never know what is going to happen, you may take your implant out and nothing happens, you can't predict anything really or try and control your future.
You sound like you have a really stable set up just relax and go with the flow.
I planned a childfree life, I have 4 sons.

Well you're 25 and not married... I wouldn't dream of having a baby outside of marriage. Currently watching the life fall apart of a friend who did what you're doing and that's 10 years on from where you are.

It's pretty much the opposite of chronically sensible

Get married first. That should take up a few years. That said my DH wanted babies many years before me and he just waited. I didn't get upset that he wanted them - it's not about the comment about your body really.

OP I remember your previous thread and if you don't mind me saying you seem really very sort of... Appearance focused and a bit... Dramatic?

For example. Re: being appearance focused You make a very big point of how amazing your relationship is, your career is, your house is.
Yet this is a perfect relationship where there isn't a marriage yet, and you have this incredible angst about simple every day conversations. I think you're really overthinking these and wonder if you're actually ruminating on this? You don't sound very happy really. Why are these (seemingly pretty standard, innocent) conversations taking up so much of your head space?

You also seem to have a strong need to be recognised for being very Mature and sensible and I wonder why that is?

If I remember correctly you're not really in a great place for children- you're rural and your boyfriend doesn't drive as well as not having a career. These are just standard things many people do to get their house in order before children. Whilst we were waiting (and it was about 3 years) I/we

-Improved our health and reproductive health

-Paid off debt

-Saved

-Moved to a bigger house (from 2 bed to 3 bed) with good schools

-Finished masters and worked for a couple of promotions so got big pay rises

-Moved to a company with great maternity pay

-I passed my driving test

Could you not concentrate your efforts in things like that?

if you don't want kids then take measure to prevent pregnancy. it's not rocket science.

but if you are on polar opposites on this then the issue isn't with kids, it's about where you are in your relationship and what you are each looking for from it. THAT is where the problem lies.

I was very broody at age 25 and my DH being the chronically sensible one, said he wasn’t earning enough for me to become a SAHM, which is what we wanted. I then waited until i was 28 to have my first. It all worked out fine in the end and was the right thing to do. Money was still tight then but it would have been a nightmare a few years earlier. It is just a balancing act.

It sounds like you and your DP communicate well so just keep talking it through. Do the numbers and decide on your time frame. Then go for it!

You sound very sensbile. I don't agree that it's good for men and women just to bring up a family. I think they should both work (even if his work brings in not much more than the minimum wage) as it protects you both in the future. What about saying you will have the baby if he obtains a full time job even if the wage only covers childcare and see what he says? As for you having a baby does not have to stop your own career. I took a very short maternity leave ( weeks) and went back full time so no impact on my career particularly as my other half who works full time earned less so his career came second. He was the one getting hom in time each night although I tried to too.

Dontyoulovecalpol armchair psychology at it's best there

DP and I got together when I was 17 and do plan to get married eventually, but we focused on university for both of us, buying a house and me finding the right career beforehand. The fact we're not married is not a symptom of a lack of commitment or any deeper issues, this is not 1950.

I do over think a lot, if you've searched me you'll see I've recently been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. Awareness of me mental health is very new to me but it does mean I have problems regulating my feelings about big decisions and constantly question my motives. Hence, seemingly innocent conversations with big consequences take up a lot of head space. It's just the way things are at the moment. For the record I'm under a fabulous GP and have been having CBT, the last 2 weeks I've been a lot better although it's a long road and I'm not expecting to be right as rain instantly, I will probably always struggle a bit with anxiety. However, I've managed to hold down my job and the house through the worst of the anxiety and now I'm coming out the other side and things are a lot brighter :)

Can you explain why you don't think I sound happy? Do you mean happy with DP? DP is lovely and we have an awesome relationship, my mental health isnt anything to do with him. If you're curious, the anxiety stems from childhood and an over achieving family which probably answers your "need to appear mature and sensible" question. Yes, I do have a need to BE mature and sensible (not just "appear") and I'm extremely risk averse, hence why my desire to have children as soon as possible is quashed by the sense of risk. This is because I grew up in an environment where deviance from the norm or from the path my parents took was (and still is) met with a lot of anger and disappointment. I am the product of conditional love where acceptance depended on towing the very straight line. I'm aware of this thanks and working through it. I'm very conflicted as a result of all this, I would dearly love to have children as soon as possible but my anxiety around risk taking and doing the "wrong" thing is still very much alive and kicking, hence the conflict with DP. He if very aware I'd love to have children and he also knows it's the anxiety and my upbringing holding me back. That's why I think he pushes the subject more than he should.

Yep we live on the edge of a small town and DP doesnt drive, although he is having lessons and should pass by Christmas all being well. DP not having a career isn't an issue, he probably never will and he's just not interested in one. This is fine by me, he works a "job" he just isnt career minded. I have no issue with this so I'm baffled as to why anyone else would

ANyway, I hope that answers some of your questions...

I was in a similar position with DH wanting to have children before marriage. I made it a condition that I wasn't having kids beforehand. End of. It's not about a big fancy day out but it was important to me that he would step up and make that commitment to ME before there were kids in the picture.

Several comments:
There is never a good time to have kids, there is always something that you feel you should get out of the way first, so barring job loss or serious issue make a plan of personal objectives for you both which will be enablers.
The list above is a good one. - driving licences, retraining, less debt etc.

If he has a good music degree then get him to seriously consider what his options are and to put them into effect in the interim. Several things to consider here - he might hate being a SAHD, your marriage might break down, you might be very unlucky and not be able to have kids.

I think the average is 12 months to get pregnant also. If you literally have someone sitting around at home waiting for you to a) get knocked up and b) deliver a child and finish your 6 months paid mat leave that's an awful lot of pressure that won't be good for any marriage.

A huge number of women are made redundant during or shortly after their maternity leave. Don't believe the hype that you are fully protected. It's crap - this is the UK, not France Brexit or no Brexit.
Therefore you need to have your job at a stage where you are very employable elsewhere and are actively valued in the role that you do.

You might change your thinking and wish to work part time. If he has not got any sort of employment that leaves you with little choice and potentially a lot of resentment. Bit of a marriage killer that.

As in life generally, the best thing you can do is get yourself into a position where you have choices and options.

Is sound engineering an option? Why electrical if his passion and skills lie in music?

I don't agree with a pp that you seem appearance focused and dramatic. You seem very sensible.

Your DP on the other hand... I think it is very worrying that he seems to want to have DC to give himself self esteem and a purpose in life. Not good reasons for having DC and yes I would think it was worrying if he was a woman, too. Bringing up a child is difficult and often doesn't go to plan even if you try your best. What if he finds it difficult and decides he's not very good at being a dad after all? Is he just going to give up on that too - like he has on other things he finds hard? Is it going to be another thing for him to beat himself up about?

I think he needs to learn to keep going at things which he finds difficult, before having DC and especially before being a SAHD.

Learning to drive would be a great start. It would be very useful practically, make him more employable, essential if he's to be a rural SAHD in the future and would hopefully make him feel more competent and confident.

Next step would be some sort of training. Why does he think he couldn't manage electrical engineering? Is there something similar but less writing-based that he could look into?

Cross posted. Glad he is learning to drive

Still worried however that he seems to be using DC as a way to avoid doing anything he finds difficult (eg further training).

" armchair psychology at it's best there hmm"

But from what you've subsequently said, pretty accurate?

You sound a bit "doth protest too much" if I'm honest, that's why you don't sound happy.
You remind me of a friend (also with GAD coincidentally) whom when she's at her worst with her anxiety goes into "my life is AMAZING" over drive, where every comment includes another about how brilliant it is (like your- I'm seeing my fabulous go comment?) so I was wondering if maybe you're similar.

It doesn't bother me whether your H has a career, if he wants to do nothing then that's his call. It will be a strain on you though (I am also the breadwinner so know what it's like)

Girl

Both of them want a parent at home with the baby. It's a bit pointless making him get a full time job and then spend all of it on childcare, just to prove a point.

You have a point about managing his expectation about getting a job in the future but pointless doing it for the sake of doing it.

She's only 25, is sensible and is entitled to want to wait longer. He is also nbu to want to do it now. Neither are wrong. They just need to communicate and agree a right time, which it sounds like they are doing.

minipie thank you :)

I think he thinks he can't do it because he doesn't think he can do anything. That's basically it. He's an absolutely brilliant musician, excellent on stage and a real crowd pleaser but if you met him off stage afterwards he'd tell you every single mistake he made throughout the set and totally ignore the people patting him on the back. I think he's just very self critical. Another example, DP is brilliant at his job. There's trip advisor reviews of the restaurant he works at and he's mentioned in the comments over and over again as providing awesome service. He lost his job briefly a month ago when the restaurant changed hands but got it back straight away because no one else knew how to run the cellar like he does.. During the time he was out of work he applied for loads of jobs and has been applying for othe rjobs for 18 months, he's been unsuccessful and people just don't reply to him a lot of the time.. I think that's another thing that's destroyed his confidence

Electrical engineering appealed to him because he loves tinkering with his music equipment, the plan would be for him to qualify then set up a side business building guitar pedals :) I managed to get him really excited about that but when we found out he doesnt qualify for an apprenticeship it really knocked him down again :(

Dontyoulovecalpol because all people with GAD act EXACTLY the same..

My GP is fabulous, I went in and discussed how i was feeling, I walked out with a CBT appointment for 2 days later, propranolol and fluoxitine and a way out of GAD for the first time in 4 years....

My life isn't amazing, hence why I'm on mumsnet discussing something that's causing me pain and not talking about a wedding in Maui .. other than the anxiety I am pretty happy though, things are going well :)

if he wants to do nothing then that's his call... you should get a belt for your judgey pants so you don't have to keep hitching them up....

minipie

That's a concern for me too, i don't think he's actively trying to avoid it or at least i don't think he's aware he is, he just needs a purpose and thinks a child is it... it's a worry for sure.

I'm hoping when he can drive he'll feel a bit more independent and he'll get a bit of confidence with the freedom of it, it's my mum who's taking him out to teach him to drive and she says he's doing ok, but he's really nervous about making mistakes. It really does hold him back. Can you use CBT for confidence?

I think I would get very resentful keeping him at home with the baby while I was working my socks off. I know it makes economical sense but .....

You sound like you both have a good relationship, so probable that you will weather this one out. Don't give in because of guilt. He's probably just voicing what is the reality, it's your body and ultimately you are much more in control of whether you have a baby or not. Plenty of my friends 'were a bit careless' - and had a baby before the man said they were ready. Your Bf cannot 'be careless'.

Maybe it would be wise to get him to retrain now. Surely that would make much more sense??

He's not going to be able to study to become an electrical engineer with a baby to care for. I would be doing this now. Before the pressures of parenting kick in!

I didn't say everyone with GAD act the same you remind me of her when she's bad. I suffered with anxiety for a few years around 6 years ago and was nothing like this. Don't put words into my mouth, you're the one asking for advice from posters here.

I would also ask him to work
On his confidence issues before e has children otherwise you may find he isn't confident enough in looking after them to do the childcare full time. Lots of first time parents worry anyway about doing things wrong, but if that nervousness stops him doing things in the rest of his life it's likely to be dominant

Dontyoulovecalpol glad you recognise I'm asking for advice, if you could get on with giving that and not looking for holes in my brain that would be great :)

Dontyoulovecalpol cross posted, thanks :)