The nightmare continues

[crossroads3]

Have woken up this morning to the gut wrenching realisation after being asleep that we are still leaving the EU, and we still now have a political vacuum which is likely to be filled by people with even more of a neo liberal agenda than Cameron. At the head of a government which has a mandate of 36% of the electorate.

What is going to make any of this better?

[crossroads3]

Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, York, Bristol, Exeter, Cardiff, Oxford, Cambridge, Reading, Brighton, Stockport, Norwich, Leicester, Cheltenham, Tunbridge Wells, Warwick, Winchester, St Albans, Harrogate - take a bow!

Yes sorry.

And not forgetting all the remainers in all the places which came out in favour of Brexit.

[ViolettaValery]

No need to be sorry, I was rallying rather than criticising or trying to. I don't understand or relate to the values that won the leave vote, so I think it's important to remind ourselves we are not alone - far from it, there are 16m of us. Most governments get elected into power on less than that!

And yes I feel for all those here who voted remain in leave districts. The only tiny consolation I have is that my city voted remain (in fact all the places I've ever lived in did).

[Badders123]

Op...you are not alone.
I feel sick.
Worse than yesterday if anything because now it's becoming clear just what lies and deception the leave camp and right wing media used.
No money for the NHS
The can't stop immigration
Calais threatening to stop policing the border.
Billions wiped off the FTSE
Negative credit rating
Endorsement by trump, Putin and Le pen.
All in 24 hours.
If I had voted leave I would feel stupid and betrayed.

[SolomanDaisy]

Johnson never thought they would win. And they couldn't make a plan, because we're not actually in control. What Farage thought could happen was that the UK could sign up to be in the EU free trade area but without freedom of movement. It has already been made clear that that is not possible from the EU perspective. Dan Hannan's comments on immigration not actually stopping seem to be expectation management that we will attempt to negotiate a Norway style deal (which will involve freedom of movement and being subject to a lot of EU legislation). But Schauble has already said Germany will block that. What seems clear is that the Leave campaign knew that we would continue to need access to EU free trade but don't have a clue how to negotiate that having pissed off all our partners.

[Rosie0987]

Sign the petition

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215/signatures/new

Take back control and stay in the EU for the sake of your Kids

Rosie

[Rosie0987]

Sign the petition to get a second referendum

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215/signatures/new

Take back control and stay in the EU for the sake of your Kids

Rosie

[jacks11]

Things have worsened- Moody's credit agency have announced that they have changes UK financial outlook from "stable" to "negative". S&P have already said we are going to lose our triple A credit rating. This is highly likely to impact on how much it costs the UK government to borrow money and given the level of our state borrowing that is potentially very bad for us all. It is likely to lead to borrowing costs for citizens too as the government rate is often the benchmark. Add to that the turmoil in the markets and the plummeting of the pound and I think we're in for a rocky ride economically. Germany have said they are going to be actively seeking to move the financial centre from London to Germany and now they have the argument that the UK will not have the same access to the EU.

It was reported last night that the Bank of England is going to spend more money in the next few weeks shoring up the markets, increasing liquidity and so on than we give the EU in a year. Which was predictable.

I am disgusted that so soon after telling us we'd have £350 million a week to spend on the NHS/farmers/fishermen/university/every other sector (so spending it multiple times over) the leaders of Leave have now said they "got the figure wrong" and it will be a lot less than that. I believe they knew it wasn't accurate all along and lied. This rosy future with plenty of money to spend as we're not giving it all to the EU is looking less and less likely.

Add into that that the EU have made it clear that it won't be an "amicable divorce" and there is a reasonable appetite for making an example of Britain to deter others from leaving. All this talk of the EU rolling over and giving us a great deal because we are so important to them may be utterly hollow.


And for those worried about immigration- there are moves in France to renegotiate the bilateral agreement and move the border from Calais to Dover.

This golden utopia promised by the Leave campaign was always false. What a sad state of affairs. How did it ever come to this?

[JudyCoolibar]

I agree that Leave knew full well that their figures were wrong. Goodness knows, enough people were saying so. Already we are seeing it with the amount of money the Bank of England is having to spend to shore up the pound which has wiped out for several years the net saving they kept talking about - and even that was always a nonsense.

I'm half Scottish. When their referendum happened, I thought Scotland would have had to be insane to leave, and had I been living there at the time I would have voted in favour of continuing the Union. One of the main factors in that was the benefits of staying in the EU. Now I have to say that if I was living there I would feel distinctly cheated, and if there were another referendum I would almost certainly vote the other way. In any event I'm thinking pretty seriously about moving back there.

[crossroads3]

It was reported last night that the Bank of England is going to spend more money in the next few weeks shoring up the markets, increasing liquidity and so on than we give the EU in a year. Which was predictable.



This golden utopia promised by the Leave campaign was always false. What a sad state of affairs. How did it ever come to this?

I blame politicians who for generations have ignored the deep social and economic divisions in this country. Many people from communities that are poverty stricken and disenfranchised blamed the EU for their problems. They should have looked closer to home.

[LovePGtipsMonkey]

Boris is not going to be a dictator running the country! But being popular doesn't hurt when people had enough of identikit politicians - he could rise spirits while the ministers do the actual work. . There are many credible experienced people working in govt - Teresa May wasn't on the leave side but she wasn't a passionate remain campaigner, I'm sure she'll be good and sensible coping with whatever task she faces, Gove also good etc.
GIVE THEM a CHANCE before having panic attacks.

[babyinthacorner]

"I know people are losing houses and being made redundant not fired but regardless of the eu these things do happen anyway, yes not as much obviously but they do and we deal with it and move on. "

You're clearly not at threat of losing your house or being made redundant as a direct truly of the leave vote then, are you?!

I agree that arguing is not the way forward, but if you can't see why people are feeling fragile and scared when suddenly there is a very real possibility that they will lose their home or their job then you deserve to be argued with. It's a bit more than just dealing with it and moving on.

[LovePGtipsMonkey]

exactly crossroads, but the one good thing now is, that out own politicians have no one to hide behind or blame now (it was convenient to hide behind EU immigration policies instead of dealing with the issues) - they will HAVE to deal with these deep problems of deprived or disenfranchised, they will have to invest there.

[crossroads3]

Gove also good

Not after what he has done to the education system and his attempts to privatise it through the back door - an ongoing Tory policy.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

we still have the austerity driven Tories in power but now the country is isolationist and economically screwed as well.

We've got our country back? We've got the country we deserve.

[crossroads3]

they will have to invest there I really hope this happens and that the wealth in the South East is shared across the UK.

[GhostofFrankGrimes]

I suspect this thread opened with lots of 'ffs' and biscuit because certain Brexiters don't want their noses rubbed in their own ignorance and stupidity again

nailed it.

[kittybiscuits]

Austerity is a myth. Why not call it by it's proper name - robbing from the poor to give to the very rich.

I suspect this thread opened with lots of 'ffs' and biscuit because certain Brexiters don't want their noses rubbed in their own ignorance and stupidity again This.

[BlunderWomansCat]

So what happens now? No one seems to know. Marvellous

[TwoWeeksInCyprus]

YANBU OP :(

[OlafsCarrot]

YY to Violetta has nailed it below.

I hope Cameron is absolutely ashamed of himself. I couldn't believe we were even having this referendum. Ridiculous.

Cameron is a cynical self serving careerist who used the promise of calling this referendum solely as a way to hang on to his own personal power as leader in his party for a bit longer.

He couldn't give a shit about the bitter consequences that calling this vote might have for the country.
If he looks sorry now, I strongly suspect it's for himself. This is all his doing. I don't even blame the Leave people that believed the crap they were fed either- the Leave side were deplorable too.

As Violetta said upthread

People couldn't engage with the real issues over Europe, and politicians/gutter press made sure that they couldn't, and that's why we're here.

I absolutely agree. This wasn't a democratic vote in the way a referendum should have been because the information on offer was so untrustworthy. Also I agree with Tim Farron's reaction that the Tories have used eye rolling at 'EU bureaucrats' for years as a cheap dog whistle. (With the effect that the level of debate began in the gutter.)

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Not sure we had a working link to this petition in this thread yet

[TweeterandtheMonkeyman]

Absolutely agree with Violetta and Olaf . There's going to be a lot of very angry & disillusioned people on both sides. The Tory party will be crapping themselves right now - no way did Boris think the Brexit- ers would actually win, it was all a political power game which used the British public as pawns.

[BeyondTellingEveryoneRealFacts]

Yy, stick your leader on one side and 'potential leader' on the other and its win-win

[Nanny0gg]

Most people who voted to leave, I have to say, are generally too stupid to understand the catastrophic consequences of their actions.

And it was this patronising attitude that helped sway the vote imo.

And I voted Remain.

The decision has been made. We now need to get on with it as best as is possible.
All this angst, hand-wringing and spite won't change the outcome. It has to be managed for the best benefit for the country.