DD return from University

[user1465822474]

Only DD returned from Uni last week, skint. No sign of any summer job on the horizon (hinting will have the opposite effect to encouragement I fear), expecting free board and lodging for the summer (fine) and to be fed as well (not fine). AIBU to ask her to pay for her own food? She's got an extremely healthy appetite and certainly hasn't starved when at Uni- her diet has been way better than ours actually. Me and husband are both really hard up at the moment because both self employed and owed money so we really can't afford this- or any luxuries. My only one is a quarterly trip to the hygienist for a tooth polish but now I'm feeling guilty about that as DD says she's in real need of one too but can't afford it. Can feel resentment building up at same rate as bank account getting depleted (and we have until October of this, potentially). Don't want to upset her but not sure how best to approach the conversation we'll need to have pretty soon.

Full time work, at that.

*I am surprised that only one poster on here has made the very sensible suggestion that OP's DD gives the family a hand with the business8

Perhaps because others can see from the opening post that it probably wouldn't work given the undercurrents going on.

What is a bit weird on this thread is the emphasis on all the things that the young person should suddenly do - after no previous discussion about the need to contribute to the kitty?

(The story about the pensioner above is, of course, a sad one. But the original poster is younger.)

I think there should be a parallel emphasis on the parents situation as self-employed people.

How do they endeavour to tackle cashflow problems? In particular what are they doing about uncollected debts?

How have they been looking to boost their self-employed income by contacting new potential clients and to cut down overheads? Do they have a robust business plan etc etc?

There's a lot to be said for modelling good behaviour in relation to one's children....

Personal care is a field where carers can pretty much choose the job they want at the moment. I would get her to apply to local care agencies, she will likely have to apply/ pay for a pvg, but once she has some care courses/ certificates then she could potentially be earning up to £9 an hour.

I don't have energy to read Full thread, apologies if this has already been suggested.

Surely DD needs employment for her future CV as much as the immediate financial situation? A graduate who got off their backside and grafted or interned in the hols is a much more attractive proposition for an employer than one who just 'rested'.

OP what field is her degree in, could she get something relevant? Being cheeky enough to ask is sometimes enough.

Do they have a robust business plan etc etc

I did wonder about all of this pages ago.

For e.g. is the business a real business or a badly paid hobby?

Its all well and good saying you're self employed and that you have your own business but quite often the reality of it all is very different.

Depends... I usually went to summerschool, wrote papers and was caught up in organising stuff for the branch of the student union (was president for a few years and we had to organise activities, like shooting, mingling, dinners etc. )
So working was nearly impossible for me (but I did sometimes tutor) however, I do understand I was very privileged. And I actually did work before going to uni.... I have honestly no idea how things like this in the UK are handled...
But I did help around the house and looked after little sis (muuch younger than me) because DM worked.

It depends on the situation, I guess. But if you can't afford it there really isn't much to talk about, tbh.... However, you obviously can't ask more ofbher than to try. Or just feed her rice and beans? If she wants something else she has to work for it? No idea. Sorry I'm probably being suuper unhelpful. I'll stop rambling. Good luck!

Same in our house. DS went off to Uni. I kept hinting about him getting a job, if nothing else ... for a little character building! But mostly because we were covering a shortfall in his living expenses and couldn't afford to fund his social l8fe as well. 8 months I banged on about nothing else except job hunting! He said he was trying, I didn't believe him. But I still kept giving him extra money, I feared he would starve if I didn't, despite the umpteen amount he was charging to my Amazon account (which I said he could use for stationery ect... NOT new clothes)
Anyway. . My company was restructuring and I was told I may lose my job. I told him this news on a Wednesday and he had a job by the following Thursday!!! (Tesco)
(I didn't lose my job)
It seems the thought of not having that extra money was motive enough for DS to get off his backside, and he is loving working...he's made more friends, he's always putting in for overtime during his holidays. And he's earning way more than he was getting from me.

There are lots of student jobs. Most Universities have their own recruitment office/dept and they work in conjunction with local businesses.
If your DD really wanted to get a job, she would.
I would give her a little kick up the bum!! She might hate you at first, but will come to thank you for it.
Good luck

Feeling so very blessed right now. DD2 (youngest child, older siblings already graduated and flown) home for summer hols after her first year at uni also. Got summer job, helping with chores, contributing as much as she can. The washing machine is on the blink and she wants to help buy me a new one, bless her! I am the opposite, I wish to goodness that I could afford to just let her chill for the summer and relax, (she's worked extremely hard and got good results for her end of first year exams and assignments) and, even though I'm a single mum, I could probably manage to not accept anything for board and lodging if I cut my cloth very closely indeed but she says, "mum, we both work extremely hard and deserve a few small luxuries over the summer" (I'm not going away at all and she has just one long weekend away planned with friends at a festival) "if I work as well we'll be able to afford a few treats now and then!" Can't express just how much I love her!
There are jobs out there if you look hard enough and are prepared to work unsocial hours. Maybe you could hand your DD the budget for food if she's not working, whatever that may be, and just tell her, "that has to provide nutritious food for 3 adults for (however many meals) and, as you have the time on your hands while we are working, it's up to you to make it stretch and do the catering." That might bring home to her just how difficult and expensive it is and just how small your budget and might galvanise her into doing something to add a little to family coffers?

Tattiebogel, do you think it sounds like the OP's financial management isn't up to much?

You could argue they could have taken in a lodger if they are under occupying I suppose.

A neighbour has had to do that and her daughter has to stay at her boyf's when she comes home to visit from uni. So the arrangement means she has to have a local boyfriend with generous parents, which really just shifts the problem.

I am really sorry to hear of your struggle, I think some people on here have given you a hard time. I dread the day my TC and CB stop and my kids return from uni as I am a single parent and work PT. I just wonder if you could get some help from a food bank. I think you GP can refer you, I know it's not ideal but so many people are struggling now and many parents have to use them over the summer holidays as no FSM.
I really hope things improve for you and that your teenager manages to get a job. It's tough out there 💐

Ah, thanks, Blanche. I have to admit I haven't read the posts you mentioned . I've recently returned to MN after a time away, but was around a fair while with another user name and was never aware that userxxxxxxxx was a thing! (Should have remembered about the Troll hunting no-no, though)

To any of the posters who said they would rather starve.

Have you ever had to go without food for your child.

I have and its fucking horrible. If my daughter got to 18 and let me go through that instead of warning in whatever way she could I would be ashamed of my own parenting.

I got so Ill just so my daughter could eat, please don't use it to make a point.

The daughter sounds a bit unwelcome at home, IMO (op doesn't seem to foresee any upsides to having her back!). Ideally, the summer holidays should have been discussed when the uni finances were planned. But now, instead of 'hinting' the parents (both) should sit down with DD and make a plan - and be explicit about expectations for future holidays as well. It is late to look for a job, but she could still have a go. Even a bit of babysitting could bring in £20 here or there which would help towards her food bill. During the summer there are lots of people going away, so perhaps some opportunities in the neighbourhood for house/ garden sitters. Or, as a couple of people suggested, could she earn her keep through helping the parents' work (sorting out paperwork, delivering leaflets, ???), Maybe an extra pair of hands could give them a boost to help the businesses pick up a bit. I think that completely aside from the money holiday jobs are really important for developing skills, independence etc.

My husband and I run a business. We are just careful about stuff like keeping the overheads low, not letting people have credit etc etc. There is one strand to the business which brings in fairly regular money, while another strand - though more profitable is less predictable. We take care not to let the first strand drop. And I do a part-time job so that brings in another (predictable) stream of income. This means we're not stretched when our daughter comes back from university and the food bills suddenly go up.

I think work does sometimes throws up stuff that can't be predicted. For example a parent who is an employee suddenly has their hours get cut, or a job comes to an end unexpectedly. That's more the sort of situation which I can imagine creating a crisis if it coincided with a 19 year old arriving back for several months without any plans.

bolograph yes mine has a very well paid placement related to her course but very few of her friends have - and none from home. So I think it's seen as a bit strange. We were very keen however that she did this but I can imagine if your group of friends were not in work it might lead you to believe that it's the norm to stay at home.

Just to be pedantic, "board and lodging" IS food and accommodation.

We too are self employed and have a uni student daughter. She has been brought up knowing our income levels go up and down and its always been a family discussion when funds have been outstanding or low. We have never had an issue with her understanding how this affects our family budget. However, never in a million years would I say to our university daughter we cannot afford to feed you! Did you all not as a family sit down prior to her commencing university and work out she would be dependent on you over the next few years? Is your Hubby not her Father? If not, is he behind the ''we cannot afford to feed YOUR child'' theme? Is there a resentment or belief that she is ''bludging'' on the family by being at Uni? By all means talk to her about the family budget and the expectation she will need to look for summer work if she wants to enjoy the extras, and in the meanwhile work out why your business is owed money and by whom and do something about it NOW. Don't let debtors get away with late payment!

I know it doesn't solve your immediate problem, but as a struggling single parent who has helped 2 DC through university very recently.........
They both got student bursaries on top of full grant due to my low income, and budgeted whilst at university so that they had not spent all of their income by end of summer term, and were able to help if needed
I didn't charge them during summer, but only provided essentials, for example if they wanted soft drinks instead of water/tea/coffee they bought their own, there is always food available to say make a sandwich but I didn't buy luxuries such as crisps and snacks and one of us would cook a proper meal at night
They also helped with chores
DD always had a part time job, retail or home care work
DS only managed to get a job in year 2 in uni city and had to take annual leave to cover the summer as it was cheaper for him to come home, he was lucky they held job open till he returned in the autumn

MessedUpWheelieBin does each person have their own sheets and strip the bed when they get out of it, put their own sheets back on when they get back into bed?

'Bed' is often an overstatement in the case of J-1 students in the US. It is frequently a case of mattresses on floors. Sheets are probably a bit ambitious too.

I know people who used their own sleeping bags and when they had enough money, rolled them up and went off backpacking. But for those staying all summer in NYC or Boston/Cape Cod and serving tables or bussing or whatever, the less spent on accommodation meant the more to take home, and a set of sheets was most likely the last thing your average grungy student would think of.

In a situation like that, what you would pay for in weekly or monthly rent was AC and a fridge and access to bathing facilities. There were plenty of LLs who turned a blind eye to it. In a university city there are frequently rooms or small apartments that are sublet for the summer months.

US universities usually start their Fall semester in late August, while Irish universities tend to start the academic year in early October, so many students in sublet apartments found themselves seeking new quarters in August, and also faced the end of the traditional summer vacation season in the US. It was nice to have lived with/socialised with a huge number of people at that point as it meant you could get new job leads or accommodation leads. Most employers were happy to take someone on then as American university students were already back in class.

The best ever summer work/J-1 experience I ever heard of was a student who went to Hawaii and slept in a hut near a beach with random strangers who had drifted to Hawaii. He got work immediately (two jobs at first and then three) and had a blast.

My DD2 did an unpaid internship last year and babysat on evenings and weekends for savings and some money to fund books and her lifestyle in university. This year she secured the holy grail of a paid internship in the area she hopes to find work in eventually. Along with activities she is involved in on campus during term time (on top of her classes and her part time job), the unpaid experience last summer was key to finding this year's opportunity. She applied from abroad for the internship and had a skype interview. She treated her job search as a priority from early in the academic year.

Well I'm not going to be a dick and say the OP is shit at her business because her profit margin is low.

It's neither here nor there (and certainly not up for comment or discussion) why she's not able to afford to feed her dd when she's at home.

The fact is she has told us that her money is tight.

Let's move on from the smug "well my business makes money, and I plan for contingencies, therefore the OP and her DH are faffing about with their hobbies" because it's not helpful, and only makes the op feel bad, which I'm sure is no one's intention, right?

I did the hot bed and sofa surf thing while working and paying for myself through uni, and while it wasn't great, I feel proud of my achievements. My parents couldn't help me at all, and I worked hard and got scholarships, and worked every summer, all summer.

It's not ideal to work all the holidays, and not have any time to rest and recuperate, but starving is pretty shit too.

Op if you're coming back, and not a dailyfail journo sit your dd down and let her know that you can't afford to keep her, but that every week you will buy her a half a dozen eggs, a block of cheese, a litre milk, a big bag of pasta and three tins of tomatoes, a bag of rice and two tins of kidney and butter beans, a bag of onions, a clove of garlic, two courgettes and two peppers, and and she can make a rice and bean with veg stew every week, or pasta with tomato sauce, and she can eat that.
Ask her for a 25£ contribution for food and a 5£ contribution for laundry supplies / hot water.
It will give her a real idea about the cost of her staying at home is for you, a babysitting job or dog walking would cover her food and laundry bills.
If she wants anything extra, she can get it herself and might spur her on to get a better job

Don't feel ashamed of your lack of money, or guilty that you can't afford to feed her: life's just hard sometimes.

I hope things turn the corner for you all.

I worked part time all through my degree and full time in the summer. I managed to get a 2:1.

Too tiring my arse

Mathsanxiety it was actually Schwabischeweihnachtskanne wanting to know about bed stripping.

I absolutely buy into the idea about the benefits of young people finding stuff to do and getting experience of paid work. I suppose it's more a question of the right strategy in each situation. The DWP model of laying down conditions of jobsearch and applying sanctions seems an odd one to use in the domestic setting. (There are questions about how effective it is there in helping people find work.)

The biggest problem in our family arose during my stepdaughter's gap year. It was probably a difficult time in terms of family dynamics. She didn't really want to be living with us, but her mother had gone off somewhere.

The first three months where she had a job went well. She had then fixed up au pairing abroad but didn't take either our advice or that of the agency about the best sort of placement. (She wasn't at all fluent in the language of the host country so had been advised to pick a bilingual family.)

My stepdaughter then decided to come home to us after about five days, but spoke to her mother for advice about this decision, rather than to us - claiming she'd 'not been able to get in touch with us '

Then she refused to sign on, saying 'she didn't want to.' That was the point at which we told her, that if she was unwilling to claim benefit the consequence was she simply had to find work. We also said that if she was unwilling to accept any guidance from us, or talk to us about decisions she was making perhaps she ought to think about whether she really ought to be living in our house.

For the rest of the gap year she had a bit of intermittent temporary office work, but there was a good deal of sitting about and watching daytime TV - sometimes with friends who were also not doing a great deal.

She opted to stay with her mother for her university holidays. However, the moral - if there is one - is that she has ended up being a very focused hard-working young woman.

I suspect that she learned a great deal from the gap year that went wrong - including from the periods where she was bored and out of work.

I think there is something about giving young people the space to get things wrong - while also trying to talk and encourage and support. As opposed to doing the 'kicking' some posters have talked about.

(Though obviously if family finances are stretched this affects the amount of space there is available.)

She should be looking to get a job, of course she should. But if you haven't had "the talk" with her then she might not fully realise the fact that you can't afford to feed her. The resentment comes across in the wording of the OP. My first summer home from college I lived right out in the sticks with my dad, who was working nights. I couldn't drive, there was no bus service, I couldn't get a job though I really wanted one, needed one, to make the next year financially viable. I was the first one to university out of my whole family, I didn't think I was special, I'd had part time jobs in school, but that was in a city. My family seemed to really resent that I'd gone, and even though I was desperately wanting to support myself I just couldn't. I didn't take the piss, I sat in my room and ate tomatoes on toast for three months, and wondered why the fuck my parents had bothered having me at all, they seemed to be pissed off at the very air I breathed. I never went home again.

OP, can understand your pov too, but be careful what you say to her. Make sure she feels able to go home again. You should have seen this coming and you are a little unreasonable expecting a teenager to be a mind reader.