I'm NOT fat

[TheJollyPostmansWife]

Name change as about to give all details as too late to text friends for advice. Visiting DHs family today, out for lunch where I had a prawn salad. After I finished I reached over to nick a bit of my dds bread and as I did so My DHs grandmother piped up 'not watching your figure then?'. This is not the first time she has been rude about my weight and to be honest I am really pissed off. We see them very rarely and I don't think she has any right to make personal comments at all - last time she said something she suggested I would lose my looks and therefore my husband if I carried on the way I was. I don't think it's important as I don't think anyone should comment on others appearance but for context I go to the gym 3-5 times a week, walk the dog at least an hour every day and see a personal trainer weekly. I am five foot one, 9 stone 3 and size 8. I'm not normally so sensitive but I don't want to see the woman again, she is elderly and not in good health and adores my dds. Aibu to refuse to see her? I would never stop the dds but we live the other side of the country which is obviously limiting.

I feel very very sorry for you.

Proteus, don't you worry that you are still clearly very much preoccupied with weight and appearance? Not just your own but everyone else's around you?

I would bet my life savings that a woman of, say, 50 with a bmi of 26 does not have a lower life expectancy than a woman with a bmi of 20.

I don't enjoy being fat but it is a thousand times better than being the utterly weight/calories/dress size obsessed teen I was 35 years ago. I cried because I was so fat then, a weight I would happily settle at now. I blame my complete and utter preoccupation with food and exercise on not doing terribly well in my A levels. I had the mental health profile of an anorexic or bullimic (reading recipe books, baking cakes all the time, exercising in front of a mirror every day) and it was absolute fucking hell.

I'm going to suggest that you haven't also spent 24 hours a day with these women who you observe eating freely just as you suggested that the myth of the thin person who eats a lot doesn't exist because of you observed them you would find them eating less. Just because you don't see a struggle doesn't mean it isn't there. I certainly have had a friend who appeared to be enjoying her food, relaxed about weight, a BMI at the heavier end of normal who was very discreetly purging on a regular basis. By no means am I suggesting that is typical behaviour but it definitely happens. So perhaps when you're reminding us that we don't see everything that goes on in a thin person's life, you could extend the same courtesy to others?

My issue is that the OP seemed to be someone generally happy with her weight but, like many women, a little sensitive to comments about it. You, as a hyper-aware calorie counter who had expressed some level of resentment of women larger than yourself getting to enjoy their food and get sympathy for their weight, seemed to be attempting in your first post to needle away at her overall contentment with her weight and fuel that little bit of sensitivity further. You defend that by talking at length about health and being very keen to push what you see as the irrefutable truth. However, there are very many conflicting theories around about what constitutes the best health, the best diet, the ideal lifestyle and there many experts disagreeing. Women are caught in the crossfire of their arguments, contradictory advice and the relentless judgement of a culture which condemns them for being fat, thin or anything in between it seems. You are obviously absolutely convinced of the evidence which you have quoted. I know that calorie counting doesn't work for me but LCHF does and believe me, my calories are nowhere near as low on this plan as on other, less successful, diets which I have tried.

The main point of consensus on this thread seems to be that it isn't acceptable to make snide comments about anyone else's weight, fat or thin. I can see why your friends'/relatives' comments irritate you. Please understand that women receive these comments at all weights so the needling of thin people is not indicative of a fat-positive culture; rest assured that there is plenty of fat-negativity around as well.

bibbity Yes I'm sure it occupies too much of my thinking and reading time. I've never denied that for a minute. And yes, it's not much fun.

I'm arguing against specific misconceptions and myths that are being put out on this thread, not arguing that people necessarily need to care about them - if you see what I mean?

I notice other people's eating and appearance because they draw my attention to it - by complaining about how "they're living on salad but haven't lost any weight" or asking me for tips on weight loss which they then ignore.

Honestly, If people are fat and happy about it - and I have lots of friends who fit this description - it doesn't bother me one bit. One of my oldest, dearest friends has ALWAYS been overweight - she will happily drink cans of beer, eat white toast thickly spread with butter, and pizza and chips for dinner - and I sit there happily with her while she does it, and we chat about other things.

Because she's never claimed to want to be thin, she's never tried to be thin, she's not interested and so it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

What bothers me is dishonesty - people who claim they hardly eat, or eat less than their skinny friends, or that they go to the gym all the time, and yet they're still chubby - people who pretend to be making the effort but aren't really.

Because they are the people that do want to have their cake and eat it - and I get bloody resentment and envy and bitchy comments from them IN REAL LIFE, when I'm the one who really is making the sacrifices and feeling the pain.

thefitfatty I'm not sure why you feel sorry for me...

Laser The people I'm talking about are very close friends, family, and colleagues - including my own mother and MIL - I would KNOW if they were having serious food issues.

they are extremely worried about my own tendencies to anorexia and bulimia and I know from the way they talk about it that it is not something they've ever experienced 1st hand. Another e.g. is my close friend/colleague who expressed amazement that nuts and cheese are high calorie as she thought she was eating healthily- honestly, it's not just that she's 'relaxed' about food, she really doesn't give a toss.

I see it in the gym every day, women who turn up to class, don't bother with any of the harder stuff, barely break a sweat, and then eat chocolate and more in the changing room afterwards - openly, not in secret.

Yes, I'm sure there are women of all sizes suffering in secret, but the majority, the norm, is a sort of 'doublethink' where they say the 'right' things about dieting but don't really care very much, deep down - not even enough to read nutrition information or to not have packs of chocolate digestives in the cupboard.

This does not apply to you - clearly you are someone who is very interested in this subject, has thought a lot about it, has really suffered from being overweight, and has made a real effort to lose weight.

I believe you that calorie counting didn't work for you in the sense that it is very difficult - I agree that it may be very hard in practice as it doesn't necessarily make you feel full. It's the same for me.

However, 99.99% of people, if they were put in a controlled environment on a 1200 calories a day diet, would lose weight. The fact that LCHF is a much more workable and satisfying diet in the real world is an answer to a different question, if you see what I mean.

It doesn't apply to me either, obviously, nor to almost everyone who's bothered to comment on this thread (by definition).

"Honestly, If people are fat and happy about it - and I have lots of friends who fit this description - it doesn't bother me one bit."

Absolute balderdash Proteus! that is a big fat massive LIE. Our op is not overweight and she appears content with her weight. But you swooped in to put her in her place and analyse her body and declare her a little bit fat actually and kidding herself.

I can't believe you have the nerve to say what you say above, really I cannot.

bibbity No, it is not a 'big fat massive LIE'.

My friend that I mentioned would never in a million years post a thread called 'I'm NOT fat' with all of her stats in it. She is not insecure about her weight. She doesn't seek assurance that she's not fat. She's not interested in discussing weight, hers or anyone else's.

There is a ridiculous moving of goalposts on this thread. I originally said OP's BMI was 24.3 so she was 'not fat' but at risk of getting that way if she over-ate. Everyone shouted me down saying "it's a fact that she's not fat and that's what matters" - that her BMI is within normal range.

Then another poster came on and correctly pointed out that actually, if you take into account the different way that BMI works for people of different heights, actually the OP is marginally overweight - 25 point something.

Immediately all of the same posters started shouting about BMI being meaningless and so what if she's a bit overweight according to BMI etc. etc.

you know what, the OP has long gone and good for her. Honestly the only person's weight I really truly care about is my own (and my children's). But I don't like lying and I don't like hypocrisy and I don't like my words being twisted.

Honestly the only person's weight I really truly care about is my own (and my children's).

Genuine question Proteus. How would you deal with it if your child had a BMI of 24-25?

Loopy Genuine answer. I've thought about this a lot.

I think a lot of my weight issues stem from having a mum who would feed us a LOT - healthy food, but too much of it, and had little to no idea of how to reduce our calorie intake. And a dad who made nasty comments about his daughters' weight, including in front of our friends. But also - just from having been a bit overweight as a young teenager and the pain that I suffered from that. I don't want my daughter to ever go through that .

I keep an eye on my kids' weight (they're only little at the moment, all under 6 years old) and I would try to avoid it ever getting to the point where they needed to actually LOSE weight, rather than just not putting any on.

I wouldn't want my kids to ever end up stealing food or eating in secret, I also wouldn't want them to find junk food a source of forbidden pleasure - so I do let them have it at parties, at school, special occasions etc.

I'm trying to make sure they grow up eating a healthy well-balanced diet, that they enjoy meat and fish and veg, and I will hopefully never end up in that situation. if I do I would restrict calories but not in a way that made them feel shitty about themselves - e.g. I just wouldn't buy cheese at all, and would give them more chicken/ham instead, or would make sure they were drinking lots of water.

Yes, when they are little and living under your roof it is in your control to adjust their diet.

But what about when they are adults? If they were in their 20s/30s/40s with a BMI of 24-25. Would you say something or leave them be?

Your father's behaviour is appalling and I'm so sorry you experienced that

Proteus actually I did observe these women over a long periods of time and took into account what you said (missing meals, small portions, exercise) but I still felt they had a faster metabolism. In fact I used to sit opposite a woman at work (Vietnamese origin) who would eat lots of chocolates/sandwiches throughout the day every day so that even if she ate nothing at home it was still a lot of calories and definitely more than I could eat in a day and yet she remained slender. I also know she didn't exercise much as we talked about that kind of stuff. I've never seen anyone eating chocolate bars in a gym changing room.
My father also used to make comments about my weight when I was a teenager which I do think contributed to my obsession with being thin although I'm not so obsessed now as I used to be.

Loopy thanks for your sympathy re. my dad. But honestly I don't hold him responsible in the long term - he's only human, and is something of an old-school (crashingly insensitive) bloke. Yes it was deeply horrible and humiliating at the time. But I moved out in my mid-teens and have taken responsibility for myself since then. I have an OK relationship with my parents now but I've always been very very independent and tried to take full responsibility for my own path in life.

In terms of your question about when my kids are older - it's really hard, isn't it? Because mine are so little, it's difficult for me to foresee what kind of relationship we will have so far in the future.

I accept that I won't have any control over them as adults and that it would be wrong to push them in any direction - I would also hope that we would have an honest enough relationship where we could address those issues openly.

My daughter already understands that I have issues with eating (I have non-psychological problems with digestion, bowel problems as well) but I hope I make it clear that those are MY issues and nothing to do with her.

I guess what i'm saying is it really depends - i wouldn't judge them for their choices unless it got to the point they were risking their health, and I'd never say anything in public or in front of anyone else (even their own partners or children or other family members) to humiliate and embarrass them. I'd hope to be able to have some input into them making sensible choices with regards to food, as well as other aspects of life.

sorry if this is waffly -just trying to answer honestly! Off to gym now.

simmi for 'chocolate bars' read 'Nakd bars' or '9 bars', those sort of 'healthy' snacks. Bananas. Sandwiches etc. I just meant it as a sort of shorthand for 'calorific snack food that totally outweighs what you've burned off in the gym'. I agree people tend not to eat actual chocolate in the gym.

I still think if you actually measured intake and calorie use for those people you mention, you would find they were using up as many, or more, calories than they were taking in.

There has never been any study that has shown anything other than calories in vs. calories out; a tiny minority of people have over or underactive thyroids but that's very few people and doesn't make huge differences to weight - half a stone maybe.

there is a reason this stuff gets studied rather than relying on people's observations, anecdotes and guesswork. And even studying it scientifically is difficult and fraught with challenges.

loopy actually I wanted to add that I wish someone had intervened with me when I was a young teen and gaining weight - only not in the awful way my dad did, but in a gentle and understanding way, in private. I also wish someone had helped my mum and advised HER how to help me stop gaining weight. I wasn't huge but I was significantly bigger than I am now and it made me so fucking miserable and humiliated and self-hating and has not worked out well in the long term - it's taken me til my 30s to find any sort of equilibrium at all.

Well my own experience with an overactive thyroid was that it made a huge difference but over a period of time. I was hungry all the time, ate whatever I wanted and went from my normal nine and a half stone to about 8 stone over the course of a year or so. I actually looked and felt great and was thrilled that I could eat what I wanted until full and not gain weight. I thought I was finally "normal". I actually had no negative symptoms with the overactive thyroid other than a fast pulse but I didn't notice that. The "problem" only got picked up in a routine health check and the medication I was put on reversed it so I was back to square one over the course of a few months. Part of me wishes I'd never corrected the "problem" - lol.

Ha! I bet

I have a very slow pulse although ecg normal. They haven't found the cause yet.

Fucking hell, you have an issue with seeing other people having a packed lunch in the gym as well?

I really hope you don't go to my gym. I eat bananas and sandwiches and protein bars. The sandwiches even have avocado in.

Presumably only a ryvita and a diet-coke would be acceptable.

I don't know where to start. Apart from that some of us don't just count calories, because we want to be fitter, not just thinner. For me, that means eating a healthy diet including fruit and veg and making sure I meet my minimum protein requirements. (Also, FWIW, I've lost weight even though I have healthy lunches after my visit. Shock horror.)

This kind of outlook is why there are so many berks on mfp who only upload the calories per product, isn't it?

There clearly are people who need less or mo´re calories. One study (Speakman, John R.; Król, Elzbieta; Johnson, Maria S. (2004). "The Functional Significance of Individual Variation in Basal Metabolic Rate) found that comparing 2 people with the same lean body mass, one had a basal metabolic rate of 715 kcal more than the other. That's quite a lot. Meaning that if those 2 people eat exactly the same amount, one of them has to go for a 10K run every day to maintain the same weight.

I personally also need fewer calories than all the calorie counting apps claim. DH eats way more and is skinny as a beanpole (I do spend a lot of time with him, I know he's not secretly dieting). Out of our kids, one takes after him, the other after me.

Now, this of course doesn't mean that you can't lose weight just because someone else has faster metabolism and can eat more calories. And the biggest loser contestants would not have gained the weight back either, if they had adjusted their eating to their new calorie needs. Again, I totally get that it's not easy.

Simmi1 I had exactly the same experience. Hyperthyroid (Graves). Caused me no other health issues, just fast heart rate and weight suddenly dropping off no matter what I ate. Was brilliant
However, later I had another episode of hyperthyroidism and bloody hell, I seriously thought I was going to die. So while the weight loss was nice, it's really a better not to be hyper.

I wish I'd known how to take control of my weight in my teens. No one's intervention eg comments from tactless grandparents, concern from my parents helped - and I wasn't really overweight btw but I was chubbier than my sisters and friends - not obese, but fatter than ideal. I just panicked and alternated between putting my head in the sand, being unrealistically restrictive and bingeing which I doubt did my metabolism long term any favours. I was so hyper sensitive and self conscious I don't know what intervention wouldn't have felt like an attack though. I also wish I'd found enjoyable ways to exercise earlier in life. I guess physical activity is something I try to find ways of making fun for my kids. Food wise, I feel it's a minefield and I hope I don't misstep - I think it's very easy to get it wrong and inadvertently fuel bad habits.

tara
Fucking hell, you have an issue with seeing other people eating in the gym?^

No i don't.

I have an issue with people eating in the gym and then complaining "it's not fair, I've been to the gym 3 times this week and I still haven't lost weight. I wish I had your metabolism"

Crucial difference.

Incidentally I don't (can't) eat ryvita or any carbs. I eat tons of protein, and fruit and veg when my digestive system will tolerate it...

laser I could have written your last post. Right down to being the biggest of my sisters.

I totally agree any intervention feels like an attack and makes you want to die at that age

That is why I'm hoping to avoid ever getting to thar point with my own children. I feel like prevention. is much better than cure.

I love dancing boxing and going to the gym now. Actually class a drugs really helped me to feel more at one with my own body but I can't really go around recommending that to my kids...

I am one of those people who eat loads and don't gain weight. But I don't think a genetic fast metabolism is the explanation. There are far more obvious reasons.

I use a lot of calories, exercise/ fidgeting/ maintaing muscle. My idea of low level exercise is high level to many people.

I've never ruined my appetite or metabolism following stupid diets, Because I don't have to question my food choices, I tend to eat what my body needs. Eg when I broke my leg last summer, my appetite in general reduced, and the carb content decreased hugely because I just didn't fancy that much.

I also think that people massively underestimate what they eat. The 2 large jacket potatoes, heaped with full fat cheese do look like a lot. But compared to eg someone eating a small portion of shop bought pasta salad, with a can of diet drink, and a piece of fruit, maybe a cake or biscuits and another soft drink this afternoon, my food choice will be lower in calories. Ditto for other meals. Yes, mine take up more plate space, but calorie wise are likely to be the same as many people who think they aren't eating much.

Also I eat to live, and whilst I enjoy it, it's satisfying the need I enjoy. Not eating per se. My food tastes are very savoury, so I'm not consuming the empty calories most people do having treats. And I just don't see the point on a personal level. If I'm hungry, I want something filling, and if I'n not hungry it doesn't occur to me to eat. I do sometimes fancy the taste of crap, but even then I'm like a toddler, a few bites and I tend to abandon it and find something more interesting to do. The odd occasions where I do decide to eat a box of chocolates, tube of Pringles etc are more than cancelled out by the occasions I just forget to eat because I am doing something more interesting.

Dd is the same, and from what I can gather so we're past generations, certainly what I recall from childhood. So in summary I think it's the eating habits, not the metabolism which is inherited.

I have an issue with people eating in the gymand then complaining"it's not fair, I've been to the gym 3 times this week and I still haven't lost weight. I wish I had your metabolism"

Er, that phrasing is even worse. I'm going to take it that you are typing quickly and don't mean to imply that people are supposed to give up eating in public/ altogether before they can complain about their diet, and you're only against them eating "calorific snacks". Like freaking bananas, apparently.

Proteus I've RTFT and at the beginning I could have put money on you having some sort of ED at some point in the past - a lot of what you've said is pretty much my internal monologue at times... I think in a way it never really leaves you