.. to think that "I fear for my sons" and ..

[BertrandRussell]

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

Yes I would be. I would not be concerned about either unless they did something or said something to cause me concern.

Honestly. I will not waste my life acting like a victim without just cause.

(I speak as a rape survivor.)

I'm not sure what to say now- I am awed.

So you wouldn't advise your teenage daughter to try to sit with women rather than men in a late night train either?

(Disclaimer - I don't have a teenage daughter)

I would advise against travelling alone late at night as I will advise my son.

However, I think there are circumstances where any man, particularly if he had not been well educated about consent and had absorbed the messages of pornography could be a rapist. He may not even think what he had done was rape. But it would be

The cultural and historical mutability of age of consent suggests that the same reasoning applies to what we, here and now, call paedophilia.

"I would advise against travelling alone late at night as I will advise my son."

Now if I had said that, you would have said I was dodging the question!

- fair point!

No I wouldn't. I don't believe anyone is safer from one group of people they don't know than any other.

bert that post about us do hoping is a diversion and a poor one at that.

And it's also poor to try to belittle what I've written by suggesting anyone with concerns is 'sucked in' by MRA's and that we research into Hequal who I don't know the fuck who that is anyway so it's irrelevant. I'm speaking about what I've observed from vocal feminists in light of this topic - and it's not pretty and it's not excusable.

The problem is, if women are raped and want to press charges, the criminal justice system will then punish her harshly in effect, if she cannot prove that she conducted herself as if all men are potential rapists.

Sorry to bang on about this. So you think that a teenage girl or boy out late at night is just as likely to be attacked by a woman as a man?

And the fact you didn't condemn the things I talked about in that post, and instead chose to blame the MRA's and ask people if they're bothered about women's topics as well, speaks volumes to me.

Unless feminists start to condemn attitudes that are man hating, then it's no bloody wonder people think we are.

"that we research into Hequal who I don't know the fuck who that is anyway so it's irrelevant."

Why did you provide a link to them, then?

For the overwhelming majority of men they are no more likely to commit an act of paedophilia than fly.

And I would also say that:
For the overwhelming majority of men they are no more likely to commit an act of rape than fly.

I didn't realise I did, it wasn't intentional to source from them but they had the summary of what actually went on on twitter - whether you agree with them as an entity or not, the posts on there from Sarah Noble speak for themselves.

But again, side stepping from the actual issue.

But we expect women to behave as if all men have the potential to be rapists.

No 'we' don't.
Who is 'we'?

I was brought up to respect myself & to expect respect from others wrt my personal boundaries. I have never taken the default position of 'every man may be a threat to me' - my default position is to assume that all people are inherently decent, I judge them on their subsequent attitudes & actions.

Only some people believe that all men are potential rapists.

Can you genuinely say that if you found yourself alone in a railway compartment late at night you would be equally concerned if the person that joined you was a man or a woman?

I can honestly say that I would not feel concern either way, unless there was something which caused me concern.
Simply being a man wouldn't bother me one bit.

Hmm. I do see what you mean Bert, but you've changed it.

I think that any person is no more at risk from a group of men than a group of women. You were asking about groups.

Now you are asking about individuals? I would be as wary about one individual as any other. I don't know about just as likely, what I do know is that I don't believe one person is a higher risk than the other simply because he has a penis.

I would be a damn sight more wary of a 6' muscular woman than I would of a 5' 6" skinny man. One I could fight off, the other I couldn't. If either had a weapon I'd be stuffed regardless of size. A 5' woman being verbally and physically aggressive is more of a cause for concern than the 6' man sitting quietly minding his own business.

Do you see what I mean?

^Jassy - tbh I don't think women should behave as if all men are potential rapists any more or less than as if all men are potential paedophiles, all women are potential muggers, all women are potential murderers, all shoppers are potential shoplifters etc, etc.

I think you either treat all people with equal suspicion or you don't. Peoples actions and words will help you decide whether that person should become a greater or lesser risk, not whether that person has a penis or a vagina.

But actually that's rubbish risk assessment. I am much more likely to be sexually assaulted by a man than murdered by a woman. That's just factual. In assessing any situation, in addition to non-gendered risks women have to consider and evaluate the risk of sexual violence from men. Because as 80K said, society (and the criminal justice system) expect us to. And because sadly, that's the reality. Should it be? No. Is it? Yes.

Jassy - you may consider it a rubbish assessment, I don't. It is not your place to rubbish other people's choices and decisions in that way.

I would be a damn sight more wary of a 6' muscular woman than I would of a 5' 6" skinny man. One I could fight off, the other I couldn't. If either had a weapon I'd be stuffed regardless of size. A 5' woman being verbally and physically aggressive is more of a cause for concern than the 6' man sitting quietly minding his own business.

Yes.
And this is why the "all men .... " narrative pisses me off.

Just as a statement prefixed with "all women...." pisses me off.

Only some people believe that all men are potential rapists.

How do we keep ourselves safe from the men that ARE potential rapists?

Are we supposed to ignore the fact that most violent crimes are committed by men?

TheStoic - in exactly the same way as you keep yourself safe from anyone who could cause you harm. How do you keep yourself safe from women that ARE potential muggers?

"Sorry to bang on about this. So you think that a teenage girl or boy out late at night is just as likely to be attacked by a woman as a man?"

"Are we supposed to ignore the fact that most violent crimes are committed by men?"

Why is this relevant to this discussion about the reasons why some of us fear for our sons? I appreciate that conversations move on but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with these comments? If people acknowledge that they may be more likely to be be violently stables by a man what does that actually prove? That we're 'wrong' to consider some feminist opinions threats to our sons?

TheStoic - in exactly the same way as you keep yourself safe from anyone who could cause you harm.

It wasn't a rhetorical question. How exactly do we do that? If I was, for example, online dating - what sort of precautions would I take to keep myself safe from rape?

Of course we're not suppose to ignore it, but nor should we be shouting down women who worry about their sons because of this whole mine field of human interaction as misogynistic feminist hating "what about the menz" bleaters.