.. to think that "I fear for my sons" and ..

[BertrandRussell]

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

Umbongo-
'Have you never seen a man have a drink thrown in his face? I've seen plenty of women do this when their sexual advances have been turned down.
My friend was out when a girl went to grope him. When he told her to get off she slapped him in the face.
The reason things like this aren't reported is because it's seen as acceptable, where as if a man threw a drink at a woman or slapped him in the face, it would be very different.'

I've never seen that happen, but that's not to say it doesn't - I don't go out to pubs much and I've only been in a club twice in my life.

Voyage was saying that men fear groups of women becoming violent/sexually assaulting them. That's a bit different to a lone woman slapping a man or throwing a drink, which is terrible behaviour but not on the same scale as being beaten up, raped or assaulted.

The point I was making is that with men and women there is a power imbalance as men tend to be bigger and stronger than women are so are more of a threat - do you disagree that this is the case?

Society says its acceptable. Do you think anyone would call the police if a woman threw a drink at a man in a club? Or slapped him? No. People laugh about it.

I really don't get why it's acceptable for a woman to do those things to a man Umbongo

I don't think Umbongo has said he / she finds it acceptable, just that society accepts it.

Would people call the police if a man threw a drink at a woman? Or stuck his hand up her skirt?

x post.

Some people live in very rough areas! I don't go into pubs usually. I've never seen even in a pub a woman slapping a man in a pub or throwing a drink.

I am sure every man on here accepts that there is more violence by men against women than vice versa. If they don't they are wrong and should do a bit of research. Also all women equally are against violence by women against men of course.

I will start thinking men have a raw deal with they own 1% of the world's wealth rather than 99% of it. We weep not for men. I did tell my son the other day he was lucky he did not have to endure menstruation. At this rate I will still have it until I'm 60. He said I get the benefit though of carrying a child which is true of course, pros and cons although after 41 years of menstruation (bar a few times pregnant) you would have thought I was due a cessation of it......

Yes YABU.

So many possibilities.

Throwing a drink? Yes, I've seen the police called if it was a man.
Hand up the skirt, probably not, but that's not the same as being slapped in the face.

'Hand up the skirt, probably not, but that's not the same as being slapped in the face'

I'm not sure what you mean here - could you clarify?

Hand up the skirt, probably not, but that's not the same as being slapped in the face.

indecent assult?

I'm sure you have good reasons to feel this way, but among all of the many people I know, I know one man (my husband) who has been groped by a woman and it was most definitely not brushed off.

Yes I do. As I detailed before I have seen many occasions where it's been bruised off. My earlier post (which is quite far down so you may not have seen it) detailed it.

t's also worth remembering, bran, that when a man gropes a woman it's a much more threatening situation than when a woman gropes a man, partly because she's likely to be smaller and weaker than the man and partly because there is an underlying threat of rape and violence

I also detailed situations where men are told they must accept it as part of their job. Despite being uncomfortable with it. They are pressured into being humiliated. The threat of violence might not be there, but the threat of being jobless is. Plus the humiliation is felt by both men and women who are put in this situation, equally.

Also, as I detailed, it's groups of women who are paying customers and who tip more if it's allowed. I would say fear is a part of it.

The simple fact is. We worry for our kids. Both girls and boys. When one group is being vilified based on their gender, it's acceptable to worry without hating feminists.

The idea we might have equal numbers of female gropers is ridiculous.

who said that?

I meant in terms of physical violence sorry.

I've lost the whole point of this conversation. I agree with user1464519881. Bad things do happen to men, but when looking at the issue of unwanted sexual attention, the scale of problem that women face, here in the UK and globally, absolutely dwarfs what men have to contend with.

'I mentioned it in relation to power dynamics. A lone woman is very unlikely to assault a large male. A group of women may not have the same reservations.'

So men are more threatening to women, but a group of women, might in theory, threaten a man, but it's not something he particularly fears?

Bad things do happen to men, but when looking at the issue of unwanted sexual attention, the scale of problem that women face, here in the UK and globally, absolutely dwarfs what men have to contend with.

I agree, but why does that mean we shouldn't worry about our sons?

I can worry about both my son and daughter. Worry about my ds, doesn't mean I think the problems my Dd will face are less worrying. It's not taking anything away from what women go through.

No one is vilifying all men. However many more women are groped and the like or even just stared at by men just because we are female and we are walking down a road or pass men in an office, mnay many more than the other way round. My 3 sons have never ever had anyone call out to them when cycling. Yet from age 14 - now (50s) about every other time I go out on my bike men either slow down and shout out or make gestures - it's constant and it's not something men ever seem to have to endure. Same with work stuff - most men haven't suffered what women have in terms of senior men groping them and all the rest. That does not mean we are not concerned if women do it to men of course, it is just that it is a lesser problem. Next time you think of making a comment to women stop short and don't.

I was thinking about it in the garden earlier mowing the grass. This time and last someone delivered a parcel - a man. Both times the men told me what to do - why? I am a house owner mowing my grass. Why do they feel they own me or have power to tell me what to do . Same last time I walked down a beach each morningo n holiday. Every single time some friendly fellow holiday maker made a comment - like you should walk on there without sandals on and the next day another said the opposite - okay nice friendly men trying to be kind (or wanting to fuck you).... but why shoudl I have to endure men telling me what to do or think? Never mind the one last year who in a business meeting at the end touched my hand and asked for a bonk. I have children of both sexes 3 of whom are in work and it is definitely much much more common that women are subject to this kind of stuff, day in day out than men ever have to endure.

There wa a good book written by an American lady who disguised herself as a man. She spent a few months living as a man in a monastery - all male and then with a group who were all male and salesmen. She described very well the different treatment she received when people thought she was male and also the extra risk men run - that they worry if they don't do the right thing another man may thump them, requirement to stick with the herd, go along to the strip club etc.

VoyageofDad. You are selectively C&P again. To what end, I don't know, but it does look just a little bit as if you are trying to put words in my mouth. Don't do that. Thank you.

I agree, but why does that mean we shouldn't worry about our sons?

Agree branofthemist, I was just trying to get a handle on where the last couple of pages of this thread were heading.

The girl at Cirencester who accused three bits of rape? Bertrand?

They were ' widely believed' to have done it, so much so that they were suspended. Court later found them innocent.

The original point of the thread wasn't that we shouldn't worry about our sons.

The original point was that when posters say 'I worry for my sons' what they mean is that when women talk about all the issues mentioned here - such as the fact that women face far more threat of sexual violence than men - what some posters immediately jump to is the effect that an acknowledgement of this fact will have on boys, as though the fact that some men will find life more difficult because they can't grope at will is a terrible thing.

Sorry, that should have read the three boys at Cirencester agricultural college.

I certainly wouldn't want them anywhere near my own daughter and find the whole group sex thing repugnant, but they didn't rape her. Yet they were suspended from college before being found innocent.