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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

.. to think that "I fear for my sons" and ..

831 replies

BertrandRussell · 09/06/2016 07:54

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

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SilverBirchWithout · 09/06/2016 20:25

I think the point is really 'all men could be potentially be a rapist' is to highlight that a rapist does not have 'weird stranger' tattooed on their forehead. It could be that the nice handsome chap who bought you a drink, he may not care about consent or may have slipped something in your drink. Some men do not care whether you want to or not.

It is no different to campaigns that highlight DV can be going on next door with those nice middle class neighbours who brought a bottle of wine to the BBQ.

Or highlighting that paedophiles are not usually 'strangers' but can be that generous uncle or your lovely new partner.

It's not saying all middle-class wine-buying neighbours commit DV or all nice uncles and new partners are paedos.

It would be like saying all emotional threads on MN are Trolls Wink

Furiosa · 09/06/2016 20:35

EveryoneElsie I am not twisting the statement. I have not turned this into "sides" (at least I don't believe I have, please show me where I have). I don't feel at all that this is personal to me as I have no reason to make it personal.

I do not believe that "ordinary" men are capable of rape and therefore we should see our fathers, brothers, friends and sons as potential rapists. I believe that is unfair and untrue.

When I asked to see what proof you had of "ordinary" men I was aware of the old adage that "any man could be a rapist" but I disagree. In fact I thought it was an idea done away years ago as being untrue and unhelpful. I wanted to know why you were so sure it was true.

As for You can make this as personal as you like, for reasons know to yourself. Its your choice. I have no idea what you mean. You are perhaps alluding to something and your welcome to spell it out to me. I'd be happy to hear it.

BertrandRussell · 09/06/2016 20:47

"Where has anyone on this thread tried to stop people talking"

Well, I have been told that I am in a hole and should stop digging. Which is pretty much telling me to shut up......

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fuckincuntbuggerinarse · 09/06/2016 20:49

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fuckincuntbuggerinarse · 09/06/2016 20:49

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BertrandRussell · 09/06/2016 20:52

"She was told they were doing her a favour. She was told she deserved it. She was victim blamed massively" I am very sorry that happened to her.

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EveryoneElsie · 09/06/2016 20:54

AIBU .. to think that "I fear for my sons" and .."I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

YANBU, and there are many other ways of saying it as well.

80Kgirl · 09/06/2016 20:56

The thread speaks for itself.

CarolH78 · 09/06/2016 20:58

A hell of a lot of men either submit to or agree to unwanted sexual activity as well. I agree that there's more male-on-female sexual assault than female-on-male (partly because the physically-forcible variety of assault usually requires superior strength). But in terms of sex that one partner agrees to despite not really wanting it, I don't think the real numbers are as overwhelmingly skewed as some might think.

The thing is, a lot of men have an internalised sense of "men always want sex, I'm a man, if I turn down sex there's something wrong with me". DH's friend went through a rough patch with his wife and, because they were arguing a lot, he didn't feel up for it. His lack of sexual interest escalated the arguments and he ended up forcing himself to initiate sex because otherwise she would accuse him of cheating and/or not finding her attractive any more. The difference is that, while a woman might process that as feeling pressured or even coerced into sex, DH's friend processed it as "there's something wrong with me, why don't I want sex, it's my problem and I need to fix it". A lot of men, I'd guess most men, would process it that way.

I'm not saying which is the right way of processing it. I think relationship dynamics are too complex for a black and white answer. But there is a definite disparity between how a woman and a man are encouraged to view their choices (or lack of choice) in sexual scenarios.

If a woman gropes a man, the assumption in many quarters is that it's his lucky day. If a girl sends an unsolicited nude to a boy, the assumption (both on this thread and often IRL) is he'd be thrilled to receive it and probably asked her for it. The result is that most men and boys don't report it when they feel uncomfortable or coerced into a sexual situation.

DioneTheDiabolist · 09/06/2016 22:27

It is unfortunately "normal and routine" for women to sexually assault men. Last year I witnessed 2 children's party entertainers be repeatedly groped at a wedding. I asked them if this was "normal" and was told that it was so normal that they had to wear cups to protect themselves.Sad

BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 06:34

It happens. This is not the same as "it is normal and routine"

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fuckincuntbuggerinarse · 10/06/2016 06:38

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BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 06:45

So is it your opinion that women and girls sexually assault men and boys with the same frequency that men and boys sexually assault women and girls?

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fuckincuntbuggerinarse · 10/06/2016 06:48

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BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 06:53

"Would you say to a poster who was disclosing that her daughter had been raped "it happens" end of sentence? I doubt it"

No I wouldn't. Please see my earlier posts.

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BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 06:54

I'm not sure what you want me to say.

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fuckincuntbuggerinarse · 10/06/2016 06:54

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BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 06:55

They aren't. As I said, I don't know what you want me to say.

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fuckincuntbuggerinarse · 10/06/2016 07:00

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user1464519881 · 10/06/2016 07:00

My sons will have/do have a wonderful life as feminists in a more equal world. I feel so proud that the efforts of women in the UK over the last 100+ years have secured those men that huge prize. Lucky boys. They even get to share leave now from this last year when a baby is born and they no longer have that huge burden of having to be the main wage earner. Lucky lucky boys. I don't feel sorry for them at all.

branofthemist · 10/06/2016 07:02

Actually I think sexual assault/ harrasment by women towards men is very common but it's not recorded as that.

In every office I have worked at, it's been ok for women to publicly talk about how 'male' members or staff are and wonder what they are like in bed. Talk about how nice their arse is. Make lewd comments to said male staff as a joke.

My friends boyfriend is a PT and did some exercise classes at the gym. Me and friend used to attend some classes and we would here women talk about how they wished he would bend over more, show more leg. They would make comments to him too. He was mortified but didn't want to upset anyone by saying anything.

I owned a restaurant. The restaurant next door had lots of male staff from the EU. Women regularly demanded kisses, grabbed their bums and made lewd comments. The staff hated it but put up with it as 'it's part of the job'. In the same restaurant, a man was ejected for making a waitress 'uncomfortable' by asking for her phone number. Nothing else. I can imagine the woman was uncomfortable, but women were allowed to do far more. No women were ever ejected. And the owner encouraged the male staff to play along as the drunk women usually spent a lot. Any staff complaining were told they were lucky to get the attention.

In my own restaurant, a friend of mine never spoke to me again when I challenged her behaviour to a male member of my staff because she was trying to force him to kiss her. She was married and he was engaged.

None of these were viewed or recorded as sexual harrasment. My friend still doesn't feel her behaviour was wrong and tells everyone we know about it. Shockingly many feel her behaviour was 'banter' and 'harmless'.

branofthemist · 10/06/2016 07:03

*How 'hot' male members of staff

BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 07:09

I'm very sorry, fcba.
I know that nothing I say will be good enough for you. I hope that with time and support your children will recover from their trauma and that their attackers are dealt with appropriately, and in a way that allows you and your children some peace.

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MeAndMy3LovelyBoys · 10/06/2016 07:17

fuck I think whoever says "it happens" is a hypocrite. Why is it less bad what happened to your children just because the people who assaulted them were female?
Just because it "happens less" doesn't make it any less serious when it does happen.

BertrandRussell · 10/06/2016 07:21

In my defence, when I said "it happens" I was not addressing FCBA. I did not know she was on the thread. The poster I was addressing was saying that the sexual abuse of men by women was "normal and routine" and giving the example of a male performer who was "groped".

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