.. to think that "I fear for my sons" and ..

[BertrandRussell]

"I feel sorry for my sons" are just new ways of saying "I hate feminists"?

"It was very ordinary girls who sexually assaulted my DD.

But that clearly doesn't fit the narrative here."

Can I address this one first. Of course women commit sexual assaults. And it is awful that it happened to your dd. But I don't think anyone would say that it's a "normal" and routine part of sexual interaction. You only have to read a few threads on the Relationship boards to know that women often submit to sexual activity they don't want. Lots of perfectly nice ordinary kind men who give their mums flowers on Mothers Day and play with their children in the park and do the washing up also think that they have a right to sex because they are married, or think that "yes means yes and no means maybe" I don't know the story of what happened to your dd- but I hope nobody suggested that she was asking for it, or that she wanted it really. But that mindset is constantly there when it comes to men having sex with women. I hope that the girls who assaulted your dd didn't think that what they were doing was OK and sanctioned by society. And I hope your dd didn't think for a moment that it was her fault or that she was wrong to protest.

And that's what I mean by thinking of my son as a potential rapist. I don't mean I think he's going to leap out on strangers in dark alleys. But if I don't teach him very carefully about consent it would be very easy for him to grow up with the sense of entitlement that many men have about sex. And if I don't teach my daughter about consent properly, she will be one of the women on here asking "What happened? What did I do that made that happen?"

No one said a young man is a rapist in the making.
'All men are potential rapists' is really not the same thing as a young man is a rapist in the making.

Rapists are just ordinary men, not special monsters. That was the original point to the slogan 'All men are potential rapists'
It was coined because at that time women were being blamed for not spotting the monster.

Does that make it clearer to you MangoMoon ?

BertrandRussell

Is your DS's father doing any teaching about consent?

EveryoneElsie

I'm not sure if you realise but there is some quite sensitive stuff being discussed and you are not helping. You ranty and condecending posts are making matters worse, Maybe take a break from the thread?

Little bit rude yourself there Jasonandyawegunorts!

corythatwas, I don't disagree with a word of your response to my post.

The phrase 'all men are potentially rapists' is a difficult phrase and again it is all about context.

Using the phrase to help men understand why women feel nervous or at risk from men can aid their understanding of how women feel. Extrapolating that to then mean, all men are therefore potential rapists because they cannot help themselves, is actually different.

It's probably clearer to state ' all men could potentially be rapists, unless they are not'

Jasonandyawegunorts As you are aware I was answering a point made to me, and I dont need your permission to do that.

There is some flat out lying going on this thread, its a real shame to see it being used in this way,.

People who promote discord and try to stop people talking to each other have their own agenda.

Bert When he is old enough if he isn't already, are you going to explain to your son that he is a potential rapist? If you can say it to us then you might as well be blunt with him as well so he knows exactly what he is. See how he feels.

Lots of men have occasions where they regret their sexual choices the next day. Would you hold the other partner responsible for that? If your DS said to you "God, I wish I'd never slept with X" would you tell him X was to blame for her "predatory behaviour"?

Yes I would if her behaviour had been predatory. I would also suggest to either a daughter or son, if you make poor choices when you are drunk or in the heat of the moment which you then deeply regret, you need to avoid the scenario happening again.

Just for clarity if you rape someone when you are drunk you are still a rapist. Non-rapist men do not rape just because they are drunk, and if they are confused about consent when they are drunk they are still rapists.

*It was coined because at that time women were being blamed for not spotting the monster.

Does that make it clearer to you MangoMoon ?*

It is perfectly clear.

It is a lazy, I'll thought out slogan that buys into the rhetoric of man=monster; woman=victim.

Quite a leap from trying to change the victim blaming of women 'not spotting the monster' to women are onto a loser anyway, coz men are all monsters just waiting for the opportunity'.

I think it's very common and socially acceptable for women to sexually assault men. Have you ever been to a night club? My husband and my brothers are constantly picking wondering hands from their asses, crotches, some even try and stick their hands down their pants! And if a group of men crowded and harassed a woman in a dark corner of a club the way groups of women do to men then it would be an entirely different story. But the men are expected to laugh it off. Because they're men.

Ill thought out, not I'll.

EveryoneElsie you say that rapist are "ordinary men" like it's a fact. I'd like you see your proof.

I don't know what makes a man a rapist but I don't think it's his genitals.

Reasons why I think this:

. Not all rapists are men
. Not all men are rapists
. Women commit rape and sexual offences against men, women and children

The implication that an ordinary man could commit rape strips men and boys of their humanity and unjustly questions their morality.

I was raised with the idea that all men are rapist and it frightened the life out of me.

I think the only thing that could have topped this feeling was being told I could potentially sexually assault some if I wasn't careful.

What a horrible thing to imply to a child or teenager.

I dont need your permission to do that.

You realise Jasonandyawegunorts is a pun?
I'm not a man named jason.

Little bit rude yourself there Jasonandyawegunorts!

Oh well. MRA PLAN MRA PLAN.

Totally agree Furiosa and you explained my thoughts better than I can.

FFs stop feeling sorry for the poor boys, having a penis is no excuse for stupidity.

Eh?

But if I don't teach him very carefully about consent it would be very easy for him to grow up with the sense of entitlement that many men have about sex.

Don't most parents teach all their kids this? Not just the boys?

I haven't discussed conscious consent with ds, he is five. I have discussed respecting people, their space and their boundaries.

I have also taught Dd the respect people, their space and boundaries.

No one wants their kids to grow up with sense of entitlement about anything. And most parents try to teach this.

And I can tell you that the men I know, have dated etc are all aware no means no. Not maybe. The relationship board is not representative of RL. There are hundreds of thousands of men in relationships. Some are twats, most are not. Who posts on the relationship board 'I told my dh no when he tried it on.....and he respected it' - no one is going to post that.

There is some flat out lying going on this thread, its a real shame to see it being used in this way,.

Where?

People who promote discord and try to stop people talking to each other have their own agenda.

What people?
What attempted discord?
Where has anyone on this thread tried to stop people talking?
What agenda would that be?

Very true Umbongo.

Where has anyone on this thread tried to stop people talking?

EveryoneElsie is talking about when people were asking for some context in order to understand WTF the thread was about.

What agenda would that be? The previously mentioned MRA agenda to ask for context.

Furiosa
EveryoneElsie you say that rapist are "ordinary men" like it's a fact. I'd like you see your proof.

The slogan was invented by feminists and taken up by Rape Crisis decades ago, to get the point across that it is not 'monsters' who rape, it is men.
That is how rapists were often presented in the newspapers. special 'monsters'. And women were blamed for not evading rape, because who couldnt spot a monster.

That is the history of the saying 'all men are potential rapists'.

You can twist that statement as much as you like. It is what it is.
You have turned this into an argument with sides, for reasons best known to yourself.
You can make this as personal as you like, for reasons know to yourself. Its your choice.

You can twist that statement as much as you like. It is what it is.
You have turned this into an argument with sides, for reasons best known to yourself.
You can make this as personal as you like, for reasons know to yourself. Its your choice.

You've been the only person doing any of this.