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"Rape...is not caused by rapists" WTF!?!

649 replies

Unacceptable · 08/06/2016 10:50

If you aren't aware of the rapist Brock Turner and the campaigners who think he's getting a hard time, have a read of this guardian link.

AIBU to think that the statement from Leslie Rassmussen decrying political correctness that harms poor boys like Brock is the dumbest piece of shit I've ever read?

Even in their drunkest, most ridiculous states my Husband, Brothers and adult sons would not rape a woman because, and I'm sure Leslie wouldn't want to entertain this notion, they wouldn't rape somebody because they aren't rapists!!!!

Brock clearly is.
Having sex without consent is rape.
Forcing yourself upon an unconscious person is rape.

You don't have to be a stranger in a dark alley to do that, just your normal, average, everyday twat.

I know it is hard to accept the wrongdoings of a loved one.
I know we'd all fight to protect those we care about but you can still fucking accept the mistakes that people make...even if you can't get your head around it, don't bury your head in the sand and pretend it's less of an abuse because 'he's a nice guy'.
When will people wake the fuck up?

Link: gu.com/p/4kk46/stw

OP posts:
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RosieSW · 08/06/2016 18:20

This reply has been deleted

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RosieSW · 08/06/2016 18:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

80Kgirl · 08/06/2016 18:37

Here is a picture and short article about the Swedish graduate students who intervened.

sfist.com/2016/06/07/swedish_students_stanford_rape_speak_out.php

Love these guys. Star

nippiesweetie · 08/06/2016 18:40

I did read that the two witnesses stated that Brock was 'thrusting' but the prosecution were unable to prove penile penetration.

Clearly, and surprisingly to me, there is no way to appeal a lenient sentence as could be done in the UK. Is there any chance at all that when the rapist Brock appeals his sentence (yes, apparently he's going to) he runs the risk of a more severe punishment?

I would gladly contribute to any civil action his target (note, not victim) might choose to pursue.

I'm grimly pleased that it must be dawning on rapist, father and judge alike that they will never, never live this down. Despite their privilege, their lives will be scarred forever. Doesn't make up for the injustice but it's something.

The jurors must be furious.

Joystir58 · 08/06/2016 18:42

The final very moving paragraph of the victim's impact statement:

'...And finally, to girls everywhere, I am with you. On nights when you feel alone, I am with you. When people doubt you or dismiss you, I am with you. I fought everyday for you. So never stop fighting, I believe you. Lighthouses don't go running all over an island looking for boats to save; they just stand there shining. Although I can't save every boat, I hope that by speaking today, you absorbed a small amount of light, a small knowing that you can't be silenced, a small satisfaction that justice was served, a small assurance that we are getting somewhere, and a big, big knowing that you are important, unquestionably, you are untouchable, you are beautiful, you are to be valued, respected, undeniably, every minute of every day, you are powerful and nobody can take that away from you. To girls everywhere, I am with you. Thank you.'

Roussette · 08/06/2016 18:45

This is an interesting observation from someone who lives in the same suburb as the rapist. Chilling to think there are apologists for him there.

UnGoogleable · 08/06/2016 18:48

He's going to appeal his sentence? Good god, is there no end to this little shit's blinkered entitlement? Does he have no idea how this is being perceived in the outside world?

If he appeals, is there a chance they could give him a longer sentence? I hope so.

The judge, his father, and the perpetrator must surely now be realizing that their behaviour has brought far more attention and scorn to this case than would have been if they had behaved fairly (in the judge's case) and with complete remorse and regret (in the Turner's case)

FreeFromHarm · 08/06/2016 18:54

I am a survivor , little was done to my ex, but I know after all his bragging and lying, he will suffer in more ways in the future. The denial and lies to people will come back to haunt him, I am sure of that.
Justice has many ways and forms and I know that is true.

KatharinaRosalie · 08/06/2016 18:54

his son could do more good going into schools to warn of the dangers of 'promiscuity' and 'drinking'. you can be promiscuous and not a rapist

Oh I doubt they meant his promiscuity here. It's those girls, going out drinking and partying, and she wasn't even a virgin, was she? Hmm

Roussette · 08/06/2016 18:56

The pictures.

first one, the only one available before the trial for the media.

second one - the mugshot, only released after tremendous pressure. Apparently the judge said it would be too upsetting for the rapist to see it

"Rape...is not caused by rapists" WTF!?!
"Rape...is not caused by rapists" WTF!?!
MrsHathaway · 08/06/2016 18:58

The judge is indeed standing for reelection. As yet, unopposed. Wouldn't it be absolutely glorious if a newly graduated female law major stood against him, and won?

Pp pointed out that he has a greater sentence than 97% of rapists, and that's where I lost it. Trials like these will only make other women less likely to report.

It's worth remarking though that the victim is legally a passive player in all this. The Swedish graduates interrupted the perpetrator, the HCPs diagnosed sexual assault (examinations carried out before she was conscious, which I find morally and legally problematic), the police and DA moved for prosecution ... At no point has the victim been awarded any kind of agency over what happened, apart from her letter which appears to have been ignored.

Furthermore, people say Brock's father would have reacted differently if it had happened to his daughter (I gather he does have a daughter, btw, and heaven knows what she understands of body autonomy) ... but that's missing the point. A woman isn't her father's chattel, or her boyfriend's, or her husband. Rape is a violent act against a human being, not damage to someone's possessions.

UnGoogleable · 08/06/2016 19:07

FreeFrom Flowers Flowers Flowers for you. I hope you have read the final bit of the survivor's letter, copied above, it's very moving.

I've just read the statement from one of Brock Turner's childhood friends. I can kind of see where she's coming from, if she believes that this was just a drunken fumble where they were both as pissed as each other. And then suddenly her poor friend is accused of rape.

But it wasn't that. He got up and ran. He made up a story until he realised she had no memory and therefore couldn't contest his version. The Swedish students shouted 'what are you doing, she's unconscious'. He knew that, and he did it anyway.

Oh please let some hot shot young female lawyer stand against this shitbag of a judge and win, that would make me happy.

LowDudgeon · 08/06/2016 19:26

Another petition to get the judge removed here

www.recallaaronpersky.com

MrsHathaway · 08/06/2016 19:32

Shit. Too late to oppose his reelection: the vote was cancelled because nobody else stood, and he was awarded another six-year term.

How many sexual assault cases might he hear in six years? Too fucking many.

I'm having a kind of existentialist crisis about this (includes Adam Johnson and Ched Evans). There's just so much noise from the other side I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the one who is deluded and maybe my body is just for the use of men.

Catnuzzle · 08/06/2016 20:09

Her statement is so overwhelmingly powerful. I hope she finds peace and hope in the worldwide recognition and support of her Flowers

LaBelleOtero · 08/06/2016 20:21

It's worth remarking though that the victim is legally a passive player in all this. The Swedish graduates interrupted the perpetrator, the HCPs diagnosed sexual assault (examinations carried out before she was conscious, which I find morally and legally problematic), the police and DA moved for prosecution ... At no point has the victim been awarded any kind of agency over what happened, apart from her letter which appears to have been ignored.

Oh, I fervently believe that if it had been his word against hers, he would currently be the subject of many sympathetic 'this type of woman makes it harder for real victims to be believed' pieces, with the internets woman haters howling for her details to be made public so she could have a taste of what she put an innocent man through... The judge didn't want to convict, the measly sentence shows that. But there were two male eye witnesses, so he had no choice. It's sickening.

VestalVirgin · 08/06/2016 20:23

Furthermore, people say Brock's father would have reacted differently if it had happened to his daughter (I gather he does have a daughter, btw, and heaven knows what she understands of body autonomy) ... but that's missing the point.

I also don't think he'd react much different if the rapist still was his son. He'd probably expect a daughter to "forgive" his rapist son. Or even blame her.

And as you rightly point out, his being enraged that someone "damaged" his "property" would not be the same as being concerned about a woman as person - and I don't think he's capable of seeing women as people.

AyeAmarok · 08/06/2016 20:26

I know what you mean MrsH, it's when you think something so clearly and it makes perfect sense, but seemingly 50% of people think the total opposite and you start to think you're losing the plot a bit.

LaPharisienne · 08/06/2016 20:30

Roussette thanks for posting - I totally agree with what she says and it's great to see that someone from the rapist's background gets it.

FreeFromHarm · 08/06/2016 20:36

Ungoogleble, Thank you, I did read it, I wish I could post a picture of him on here as a warning to others, but I know he will get his just desserts someday that is my only consolation , thank you for being so kind.

Citizensmith1 · 08/06/2016 20:39

this reminds me of here in the 70's - the queen's guard that raped a woman here in a park got found guilty but the judge wouldn't send him to prison because it would ruin his army career.

not much has changed since then. some things have, but some have got worse. look at all the young girls in care in Rotherham who were reporting their rapists and the police were telling them to go away of they would be arrested - and some of the were - for being drunk & disorderly, while their rapists went free. And that's happenning everywhere, not just Rotherham, not just young girls in care. So sick of rape being not taken seriously.

Am so glad that this story has got so much attention - hopefully the woman it happened to will be able to take some small comfort in the fact that so many people are outraged for her. It might make her feel less alone.

UnGoogleable · 08/06/2016 20:52

FreeFrom you're welcome. You sound very brave.

So sick of rape being not taken seriously. Me too. What can be done? We're not going to change the overriding sexist attitude to automatically disbelieve women.

We can educate our sons, of course, and I'm sure many do. There are still plenty of good men out there. But perhaps we can educate our daughters on how to gather evidence and report incidents properly if they do happen so they have to be believed..?

I know a very feisty woman who was once abducted in our town. She managed to fight back and escaped her abductor's car when he stopped at a traffic light. But before she did that, she was very canny in ensuring that as much of her DNA was in the car as possible, in case she didn't get out. She licked the windows, pulled out her hair and stuffed it down the seats, chewed off her fingernails and left them there, did anything to leave a trace of herself there. Thank god, she got away and the fucker was convicted - but if there had been any doubt, then her forward thinking would have helped to prove her case. I am in awe of that girl.

gonetoseeamanaboutadog · 08/06/2016 21:06

I read the victim's letter. A beautiful and chilling piece of writing that I hope his family have bothered to read and digest.

The sentence is a disgrace. I'm shocked that it's even possible to hand out such a joke sentence for a crime like this.

Brock's sister noted he won't be a great athlete now. Won't be a surgeon. I feel sad that his life is wasted in these ways - but glad he was caught at the outset. This is justice and he will be paying for it all his life. I only hope his victim finds complete peace, wholeness and healing in time to fully enjoy the rest of her life, unfettered by consequences of his sin.

I dislike the fudging of the rape issue through the use of the word 'promiscuity' from Brock. At the same time, I think it would be no bad thing if someone spoke to students caught up in the drinking culture and highlighted the catastrophically poor decisions that can be more easily made under the influence of alcohol - the depressing of inhibition, the depressing of conscience, the likelihood of more impulse-driven behaviour. I'm not saying that he isn't a rapist when sober - he clearly is - but I don't know if he would have carried out this crime while sober. We'll never know. But I do think that drinking to excess makes rape more likely, rather than less likely to happen, not only because of the reasons mentioned already in this paragraph, but also because it can create a 'wounded antelope' who, while not responsible for being 'wounded' or morally accountable in any way, would nevertheless have not been 'wounded' if not drinking to excess. Whether women ultimately decide to change their behaviour to avoid looking 'wounded' or opt to live their lives freely and leave it up to the Brocks of this world to stop behaving monstrously, I would like them to weigh it up and have the chance to consciously make that choice, rather than waking up on a hospital trolley and realising, after the fact, that they've been 'picked off'.

In the stunningly eloquent victim impact letter there is a slight contradiction that speaks to a problem around the consent issue that I believe needs to be straightened out. The victim notes that she wasn't asked for her consent and it seems to me at this point that she is making the point that he should have asked for it. This is an important point because if asking consent is really absolutely necessary for all men before intercourse, there needs to be a widespread acknowledgement of this. I say this because I don't think all men are aware that they should always ask for consent (although clearly in these circumstances the victim was in no fit state to give or refuse consent and the question would have been void).

Later, on hearing that Brock claim he did ask for consent and received it, the victim (rightly in these circumstances) refuses to believe it, stating that consent is not usually asked for but there is usually a consensual unfolding of events. (I don't have her exact words in front of me). So is she saying that men should ask for verbal consent, or not? While I can easily see that in these circumstances, it is preposterous of Brock to claim he asked for consent, I'm uneasy with the assumption that any man claiming he received consent will be disbelieved because 'who does that?'. I think this issue needs more thought and direction from women in general because while we are of course clear about our expectations of men in relation to the unacceptability of rape, we are not crystal clear about whether we expect to be verbally asked for consent or not. Personally, I think it would be great if the 'consensual unfolding of events' idea was widely thrown out as bad practice because I think many women who go along with unwanted sex (as opposed to non-consensual sex) might say 'no' if given the opportunity to do so by a straight question. Though going along with unwanted sex is an area where more education of women is needed.

I fully support the idea that 'rape is rape' - there is no difference in rapes and therefore no degrees of rapist. Saying they are all predators is simply saying it how it is. However, I also think there is also a danger there because there are rapists and potential rapists who did not perhaps consciously plan to carry out a rape in their lives prior to the circumstances in which they went on to rape. For this group of would-be rapists, it might be helpful to point out that anyone can, in the circumstances, make the choice to be a rapist. It's something for all of us to guard against vigilantly (eg. by always seeking verbal consent, making a prior decision never to have a sexual encounter with someone who seems drunk etc.). I think there's a possibility that Brock never foresaw he would carry out these action beforehand because he didn't realise the potential for darkness within himself and didn't identify as a monster. Although I don't think he's the person to give 'talks' on campus, I do think that his experience could encourage students of both genders to think about these issues.

witsender · 08/06/2016 21:10

I saw a very insightful tweet on this actually. That in a rape case the victim/woman is judged on her past, and the perpetrator/man is judged on his future, his potential. Very very wrong.

MrsHathaway · 08/06/2016 21:48

Flicked between MN and FB and was shown the attached.

Very much yes.

"Rape...is not caused by rapists" WTF!?!