"Rape...is not caused by rapists" WTF!?!

[Unacceptable]

If you aren't aware of the rapist Brock Turner and the campaigners who think he's getting a hard time, have a read of this guardian link.

AIBU to think that the statement from Leslie Rassmussen decrying political correctness that harms poor boys like Brock is the dumbest piece of shit I've ever read?

Even in their drunkest, most ridiculous states my Husband, Brothers and adult sons would not rape a woman because, and I'm sure Leslie wouldn't want to entertain this notion, they wouldn't rape somebody because they aren't rapists!!!!

Brock clearly is.
Having sex without consent is rape.
Forcing yourself upon an unconscious person is rape.

You don't have to be a stranger in a dark alley to do that, just your normal, average, everyday twat.

I know it is hard to accept the wrongdoings of a loved one.
I know we'd all fight to protect those we care about but you can still fucking accept the mistakes that people make...even if you can't get your head around it, don't bury your head in the sand and pretend it's less of an abuse because 'he's a nice guy'.
When will people wake the fuck up?

Link: gu.com/p/4kk46/stw

[supersoftcuddlytoys]

The suggestion is still that that no woman ever has lied about this. I say that is what's ridiculous. Women are human and humans sometimes lie.

[DetestableHerytike]

Rapists lie massively more often, supersoft. Or are you ignoring that?

[DetestableHerytike]

Bravada was talking about the case of women willingly having sex and then lying about it afterwards.

False allegations are tiny (see keir hardy) and the proportion of those made in the circumstances Bravada clearly described is even tinier.

[supersoftcuddlytoys]

Rapists lie massively more often, supersoft. Or are you ignoring that?

Maybe they do. I didn't say they didn't. False allegations may be tiny, (I don't know the true stat's) but they are nonetheless often devastating for those that are wrongly accused. Or are you ignoring that?

[DetestableHerytike]

Of course rapists lie. They are criminals.

[DetestableHerytike]

And being falsely accused of rape is not more devastating than being raped. Did you read the victim impact statement?

[DetestableHerytike]

Here are some stats. Meant keir starmer

www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/13/rape-investigations-belief-false-accusations

[supersoftcuddlytoys]

FGS I'm not disputing numbers with anyone. I'm simply saying that to say that no woman would ever lie about rape, or is somehow incapable of doing so, is flipping-well ridiculous.

[DetestableHerytike]

Righty ho

Any comment on the rest of the thread?

[venusinscorpio]

It's good that no one said that then, isn't it? Interesting that you felt the need to quote from the post you responded to in such a disingenuous way.

[VestalVirgin]

I don't get why some people feel the need to say " ... but false rape accusations!"

Seriously. If a burglar is punished, do some people feel the need to point out that it could be a false accusation? Or a thief?

You constantly live at risk of being given an expensive gift and then accused of stealing it. Most people never even think about the highly hypothetical danger that someone could accuse them of stealing.

Rape is the only crime where people are worried about "false accusations"

And I think there's a reason for that: Some men are rapists and worry about perfectly legitimate rape accusations. But they can't say that, to they pretent to worry about false accusations.

[RebelRogue]

Why does it matter? Why "women lie" has to be brought up in every thread about rape or sexual assault. Why pick up on that one thing(even though i get what the WHOLE sentence was trying to say...there's definitely more shame and stigma associated with being raped than sleeping with someone you regret the next day)?

[DetestableHerytike]

Is now the time to mention that men are statistically more likely to be raped than be falsely accused of rape?

First you said the numbers may be tiny, you didn't know. Then I helpfully provided some stats, then you said you weren't disputing the numbers.

Ah well. Back to the actual subject: rapists do cause rape.

[kawliga]

I'm simply saying that to say that no woman would ever lie about rape, or is somehow incapable of doing so, is flipping-well ridiculous

No, what is flipping well ridiculous is your comment, quoting people out of context by extracting half of their sentence. Nice try. People are falsely accused of all sorts of crimes - theft being a good example and nobody says it's a problem to charge people with theft because the accusations could be false.

[kawliga]

It's teaching to counter the idea that women are in a state of consent unless and until they say otherwise, where it should be a starting point of non-consent and mutual progression.

I do see what you're saying with this, detestable but my concern is that it doesn't seem credible to me that the reason why the rapist went ahead to force the girl is that he was unaware of the meaning of consent. That depicts the rapist as 'innocent' - he didn't know, because he hadn't attended consent classes.

I guess this is why rape apologists on here (not referring to you! I know we're on the same side here!) are defending rapists. They are saying that the rapist did not know all the complex nuances of consent. If we say that actually, classes are needed to educate people on what consent means, that's like conceding that argument. What will you say when faced with a rapist who didn't have the benefit of classes? Or he went to a useless school, so the classes were useless? Or maybe he was absent from school the day rape was taught.

The truth is that the majority of men do not rape women, and that's not because they had the advantage of classes. The more consent to sex becomes something to learn in a class, the more a rapist can plead innocence because he never took the class or perhaps the teacher didn't explain it carefully enough, yes, the teacher said something about drinking tea but the rapist didn't understand what tea had to do with sex, etc. We are just creating more room to quibble.

There is no other crime that depends on classes to teach young people that it's wrong to commit that crime. Even worse crimes, like people who shake babies to death and could plausibly claim that they didn't realize that might result in death - yet you don't hear people saying we should have classes to educate young people on this.

Classes to teach young people that it's their right to say NO I agree with entirely. I also agree with teaching about dick pics and porn and the internet - I can see that porn changes things and young people might have not considered that not everything they see in porn is reality unless someone enlightens them.

[PalmerViolet]

Can people stop with the "I hope he gets some action is raped in prison" please?

Rape, where ever it happens and whoever it happens to is entirely wrong.

[DetestableHerytike]

Yy Palmer

Kawliga, I don't see it as an excuse anyone could use in court. Just as you can't use not having a tv as a reason to speed or drink drive, because you didn't see the cautionary ads.

Gotta post and run but back later!

[supersoftcuddlytoys]

I'm afraid I did read the whole sentence. People were getting carried away, saying things to the effect of: 'its ridiculous to say a woman would ever lie about being raped, because she'd subject herself to further examination etc'. Well, that's an absurd thing to say IMO. Of course woman are capable of lying about being raped.

I noticed you had nothing to say about the monstrous post saying : how much they hope this offender gets raped himself in prison? What is that but incitement to violence? That's OK though, but my pointing out a common sense fact is so deeply offensive to you !

[DetestableHerytike]

You didn't comment on the monstrous post either, super soft.

[supersoftcuddlytoys]

Er I just did, didn't I??....Will you now take that poster to task for incitement to rape. Just like you did me for making a completely reasonable remark?

[PalmerViolet]

Actually, just before you said that she hadn't commented on the monstrous post, she had agreed with my post about, um, the monstrous post super... unless it was a different monstrous post, in which case, um , sorry.

Don't want to look like a bully now!

[DetestableHerytike]

You criticised RebelRogue (I think that's who you were talking to) for responding to you rather than the "monstrous" poster, despite the fact RR had posted once since that post and you'd posted three times.

I doubt mimicat will be back to the thread, but as per my post above, I agree with Palmer that rape as a punishment for rapists is not something I agree with, any more than I agree with the death penalty for murderers or beatings for those who committed GBH. We've moved beyond an eye for an eye, surely.

[venusinscorpio]

Yes it's obvious you read the whole post and decided to omit an important section of it. Why?

[Bravada]

Super I definitely didn't say that women never lie about being raped. That is clearly false so that would be a silly thing to say. There are malicious accusations motivated by anger etc (very very few). Men also sometimes lie about being raped.

I'm saying that the motivation pp was suggesting - where someone had willingly had sex with another person and then the next day decided to report it as a rape because they were simply ashamed or regretted what they had done - does not make sense. The accuser then has to have an internal examination, stand up in court and be questioned about their sex life, have the gory details read out in front of their family. That's not what someone who is embarrassed and regretful would want to put themselves through.

But I think you knew what I was saying, and because you couldn't find any argument against it, you argued against something that I didn't say instead.

Vestal I fear you are right on the money. Some men are rapists and worry about perfectly legitimate rape accusations. But they can't say that, to they pretent to worry about false accusations.