to ask how you deal with a stroppy child after contact?

[alificent]

DD is 9 and her father and I separated when she was 18 months old. He's dipped in and out of her life a bit but contact has been alternate weekends consistently now for 2.5 yrs. When she returns from contact she either Ignores everyone here or is extremely rude and behaves badly to provoke a reaction. She tries to goad me in to telling her off (I think) so she can feel sorry for herself and convince herself that I prefer her siblings.

Her siblings are 4 months, 2 and 5. Usually they get on great but she's horrid to them after contact. I think she's jealous that they're here all the time but she says she wants to see her father so her jealousy is irrational. She's said before that we shouldn't do anything when she isn't here and is really rude if her sister tries to tell her anything that happened without her. The strange thing is, I don't think she has a particularly enjoyable time with her father. This weekend, for example, he collected her on Saturday morning and they went to watch him compete in a golf match for most of the day. They went out to eat somewhere that she doesn't like the food. On Sunday they went around car showrooms and then he dropped her back early because he was going out.

He dropped her at the swimming pool where her siblings and I were and as we were walking to the car she kept barging in between DS2 and I as he was trying to hold my hand for the car park. I was holding the baby with the other arm so I said 'excuse me please, DD, I need to hold DS' hand in the car park' and she stormed off mumbling about its always someone else's hand I want to hold, but never hers.

When we arrived home DD5 gave her a present she's bought her from her pocket money and DD9 just made a sarcastic comment and tossed it aside. I later asked her to put her socks in the wash and she started arguing and said they're her dad's socks anyway so he should decide what's done with them (!?) and that he'd shout at her if he knew she wasn't wearing then (!) She claims he shouts a lot and complains frequently about how little effort he puts in to planning anything she might enjoy yet is so unappreciative that she gets the exact opposite treatment here.

Our weekends revolve around the DC with swimming, bike rides, park, cinema, baking, painting etc. She has friends over, sleepovers, birthday parties, we have dates just the two of us every fortnight, read together each night, I take her to any activity she likes. Her father does none of this yet it's me and her siblings she gets angry with and I don't know how to deal with it anymore.

Is anyone elses child like this after contact? Any suggestions?

She is nine. What has happened in her life is not her fault, and she doesn't know how to cope with all her conflicting emotions, about her father, about you and her siblings. You have to be strong, calm and offer as much security as you can.

It was the court that made me out to be twisted about the bed sharing. I said I felt it was inappropriate because it started at age 8 (rather than being an old habit that was difficult to break) and caused a lot of disruption at home when she returned because she'd refuse to sleep alone at home. Both exH and the court said sharing a bed showed their deep connection and I posted on here and got vilified saying it's completely normal to share a bed with your 9 year old and that I'm sick for saying otherwise.

She came out of school in an absolute grump tonight. I asked if she wanted to talk and let her know she can tell me anything. She refused to go to her extra curricular club that she usually loves and says she wants to quit them all. I think this is because her dad refused to let her attend a practice last weekend which means she can't take part in a performance. We had a snack and I read to her and she cheered up and played nicely with her siblings all evening.

I'm not irritated by her. I'm irritated by her being made unhappy. All he has to do is the bare minimum to keep her happy but he can't even manage that. He keeps letting her watch crap like Don't tell the bride and Take me out and telling her she's lost weight and letting her wear crop tops and make up like the women she watches. It couldn't be more opposite from her life here where she's giggling at Peppa and playing fairies with her sister.

Do you think that changing the contact would make a difference, if she didn't stay overnights, and just saw dad one day every other week-end and one day or part of a day during a week? Because she wouldn't be away from her home for so long in a block of days.

I think this is because her dad refused to let her attend a practice last weekend which means she can't take part in a performance.

Why wouldn't he let her go?

Because they 'had plans' purplefox. All they did was look round car show rooms

Unfortunately her father nor court would ever agree to that girly. He'd also probably rub it in more that his other DD gets to stay overnight but she doesn't and use it as an excuse that they can't go on any promised trip because she has to be home in the evening.

Hi OP

I feel compelled to reply here as I really identify with your daughter. My parents separated when I was four and my mum remarried and i have two half siblings 8 & 11 years younger than me. My dad was consistently inconsistent around contact and promises. He didn't pay child support but would buy me books almost every Saturday. He'd undermine my mum by buying me elaborate gifts like Lego train sets and letting me watch 15 cert videos. But often contact was a bit rubbish, sitting around in pubs or watching tv in a fug of smoke. He could be mean and make promises he'd never keep, like when the gifts stopped but he'd still
Promise to take me on holiday or to the cinema or to buy me something special but he never did. But he was still my dad and I loved him to pieces. And as I got older, probably around you're daughter's age I started to worry about him, precisely because he was the opposite of all of the other stuff at home. As the oldest in any family it can sometimes be hard to ask for your emotional needs to be prioritised. It's far easier to act angrily than let your mum know how mixed up you feel. It's only as an adult that I worked out that I was resentful of my sisters as they had a 'whole family', a full time family. Even now there are family memories I don't have as I was on contact. I love my sisters, my mum and my stepdad to bits but I remember being particularly mean to my stepdad at points because I was feeling so over whelmed and he was so differ t from my dad, and also because he was consistent!. I remember being envious that friends' mums would take them shopping all by them self and have a girly time. Not something my mum had time for. I think the hand holding thing is the same. She is still a little girl who needs her mum but is struggling to ask for it. I think, I know it's hard, but making the time to ask her out is really important. Particularly as she can't make sense of the conflicting feelings. My mum used to just say things like, it's so frustrating when you're dad lets you down. It doesn't mean he doesn't love you. He's just not very good at these things. That helped. She always made a point of coming to see me when I was in bed and having a chat. That helped, when there was no one else around. And the wee ones didn't need her. And in the car, always a good place for chats when there is no eye contact to be had! Much less intense. Acceptance is good, noticing that swapping from one family to another is hard and naming that elephant in the room is likely to be helpful. 'It must be hard going between two families - you must feel a bit mixed up when you might feel like you want to be in two places at once. That's really tough when you're 9.' Etc I also remember the transition home being hard. My dad smoked like a lum so I can vividly remember coming in the house and smelling different to everyone else. Clean pyjamas and a shower always helped my transition, which was usually around bedtime. Sounds like you are trying really hard to understand your daughter. She's really lucky to have a reflective mum who is trying really hard to see beyond the obnoxious behaviour and see it for what it is, a 9 year old struggling to cope with the situation. I'm sure with your support she'll be able to make betters sense of the situation. Good luck OP

Seek her out! Not ask. And your not you're. Yikes my typos are annoying!

forget the typos, mamahibou that's a beautiful and very clear post.

I hope you're at peace with all of it now.

Missing 1 practice= no performance is mean. What if ill or away? I'd explain she has divorced parents and can't make all weekend practices. I presume it's usually on a week day

Alificent, have you ever thought of petitioning for a guardian ad litem to be appointed?

I urge you to contact the NSPCC and tell them about the bed sharing and all the rest of it.

You also need to contact school and tell them all that is going on. There may be a way to refer her to counselling through school, and you should talk to the GP too. You need to tell everyone about the bed sharing. You should also mention that she is being allowed to wear makeup and wear revealing, sexy clothing and watch 15 cert media.

You need to approach whoever runs the performance club she has been practicing for, find out exactly what happened, and ask for some understanding if it turns out that missing one practice has resulted in being dropped. You need to get on your bike here and speak up on behalf of your daughter when shitty things happen that are beyond her control. Tell the person running the club that her dad is to blame for her absence. She needs the clubs and activities that she is involved in so that she can have friends and a connection to her peers and basically remain a child despite what her father is doing to her.

Please don't sit back and take any of this lying down. Girly's suggestions are excellent - ask for maybe dinner on a weeknight or weekend night, so you don't run the risk of coming across as a vengeful mother intent on cutting a father out of a daughter's life.

Do you have a solicitor? Who represented you in court last time? Who has been advising you?

I am going to repeat - your DD is being emotionally and psychologically abused, and judging from your latest posts about makeup and revealing tops, the abuse is beginning to sound like grooming. When you put all the elements together with sharing the bed, a picture emerges.

Women's Aid will also be able to help you access local services to support your daughter.

Her behaviour is a direct consequences of the emotional and psychological abuse she is experiencing from her father. Courts are notoriously shitty in recognising this abuse but that must NOT stop you from accessing help. As mathanxiety has said, you need to speak to GP and school, access counselling services, and look at petitioning the court to limit or end contact. Petitioning for a guardian ad litem is an excellent way to ensure that your daughter's experiences are recognised without it being dismissed as a 'vengeful' mother.

You need to keep a diary now of contact and record every single thing your daughter says that happens during contact as well as list her behaviour.

She needs you to fight for her.

Thanks fatmomma99. I am. And I'm a better parent and professional as a result I think.

I've only skimmed this thread but feel compelled to add. I'm extremely concerned that there's a danger of a massive over reaction here, based on what will only ever be 3rd hand testimony. Firstly, the main issue is this child is 9. I feel that in itself is being ignored. 9 year olds don't want to watch peppa pig and play fairies. They want to download the latest rap track with rude words in and practice a raunchy dance routine they can then perform and hold your attention with. My first point being, as with the clear desire to be allowed to walk home alone with her mates, are you accommodating her growing up? The whole walking home thing sounds like a very typical 9 yo attempting to get her way.

Secondly, do you really think new partner is going to allow some 'questionable' activities going on during contact? IF, you are wrong about your exs motives regards sharing a bed, this is an horrendous and damaging slur to start throwing around. Everything that's been peiced together here, is not from 1st hand witnessing, but 3rd hand 'interpretation' and filling in the gaps, and am I right that it's simply down to 9 yo madam returning home with some major attitude?

My first port of call would be, am I infantilising my 9 yo because of her younger siblings? Is her father indeed treating her as far more grown up and valid? (She clearly talks to him about stuff that's important to her, like being allowed to walk home from school even though that's your responsibility)

I think a little common sense needs to prevail here, and from what I take from this thread is, a typical 9yo starting to kick back .....
Re the shared bed thing. I can only hypothesise, as can anyone else, but I'd guess they both don't go to bed together at say 9 o'clock leaving partner downstairs! I'd guess this really is a convenience/comfort arrangement that means your DD wakes up with her dad and can get on with her day, without having to stress about knocking on a step parents bedroom door to ask for breakfast, or worse, lie there perfectly still and quiet waiting for someone to say it's ok to get up.

For me , I think he's possibly far more child centric than credits being given here.

And yes, they do want to wear crop tops, they do want to wear makeup they do want to dance around like my big fat gypsy wedding. Who ever is suggesting here that allowing a 9 yo to do these things is 'grooming ' is sick. Stop making her watch peppa pig because the young ones get first dibs on what's on telly!!!!!!

What ridiculous generalisation to say she wants to download rude rap and gyrate She is completely naive and believes in every possible mythical and fairytale thing. She shows no interest in technology or music or fashion or walking home independently at home, it's always him instigating whatever conversations or interests he thinks are the opposite to mine.

Well there's your problem , all her mates are highly techno tuned, highly fashion aware (9 really is the age of self awareness/image kicking in) and you'd be amazed at what 9 yo do indeed listen too. Of course it's all been 1D, but I'll guarantee a few friends at school have introduced her to some dubious lyrics!!
9 is when she knows Father Christmas doesn't exist....... and yes, if she's talking to her dad about walking home, and then tried again to talk to you about it, damn right it's important to her!

It really does strike me that dad is more attuned to this growing up phase and mum is fighting tooth and nail to keep the 'fairytale princess' stage for as long as poss. Ignore it at your peril.

When I was 9 my friends and I were constantly piling on make up at each other's houses, painting our nails, and tying our shirts into midriffs we looked like little hookers. There was no grooming going on, just a few girls trying to find their footing growing up. But we were also still watching Disney movies and giggling at how loud we could burp.

She's in an odd place where she's not a little kid, but she's not a teen either. Do you make sure she has access to older kid stuff? She doesn't need full on make up but glittery lip gloss and fruity scented perfume are age appropriate. Maybe get her started on some anime like Naruto or something. Does she have her own tablet or ipod? Something that she has and the others are too young for? It doesn't sound like she has any perks for being the oldest, and she has the problem of being the first to have to navigate this since she has no older siblings to look up to.

I don't care how much you say she believes in mythical things... she doesn't. Not at 9 years old. I'm concerned about her "liking" Peppa Pig. That's a toddler show. Are you sure she's not just trying to fit the image she thinks you want her to be? Or even blend in with her siblings to get the same love (if she feels you favor them)?

I'm sure this is a combination of dad trying to be "cool dad" and giving her teenager stuff to make her grow up too quick, and you making her watch Peppa pig and keep her small.

It sounds like she's trying to live up to different expectations to different parents and being miserable trying to do both.

I have never in many years on MN read such preposterous nonsense as that posted by Chris.

Senpei too.

I agree that Women's Aid could be the best and quickest way to get the help your DD needs. However, you need to talk to her school and to the GP too. (And to the person running her after school club).

Mamahibou, your post is spot on. Very true and balanced.

It's always helpful when Internet strangers enlighten you about what your own child likes and believes in...! She does believe in Santa, the tooth fairy, elves, fairies, talking trees, worry dolls etc. I'm not trying to keep her young - I'm happy to support her in growing up but she shoes no interest in doing so and I'm not going to rush her into it. Her dad made it clear to her he bought the presents at his house at Christmas and told her she's retarded (excuse my use of a disgusting word) if she believes I don't buy them here. That isn't letting her grow up, that's just being a demeaning twat.

Aluficent, in all this malarkey of parenting separately, there is always one part saying one parent is pulling behind a child and another making them grow to quickly. Both part oblivious that the main influence in such development are neither of the parents but the kid's friends group.

Ignore those who try to criticise you for that, they do NOT know you of your child, they do not know what they are talking about.

op why do you think the court appeared to be under the impression you are blowing issues out of proportion and being a contact blocker?

Amen to that, MeMySonAndI.

Alificent - do you have a solicitor advising you? Did somebody represent you in court? Who has been giving you advice about communicating to the court and pressing the case for your child's best interests?

Because that's what he told them Needs. I'd offer contact and say please let me know at least 48 hours before so I can make alternative plans if you can't have DD. He'd wait til 12 hours before and say he'd have her. I'd say too late, sorry and the court felt I was unreasonable and should drop everything for contact.

I can't afford representation but it's very difficult when she openly says she wants to go there. She can't articulate why it makes her unhappy so I look like I'm making it up because she claims she's happy to go.

She wants to go there because she's a kid and that's what kids tend to want.

You do not need representation in order to speak out and be clear.

Are you meaning that you would expect 48 hours notice of arangements to have her or are you meaning arangements were in place but you required 48 hours confirmation?

One IME is usually considered reasonable by courts the other is often considered to be one parent being a bit game playing and not very reasonable unless valid criteria exists involving the collecting parent needing to confirm support required is in place in the event of a illness or something like that.

If you are that concerned by the situation then you need to go back to court but you need to do so having changed what ever it was about your approach that led to the original court making the decision it did because if you don't you will fail.

It's fairly usual for genuine issues to get hidden when they are piled in with lots of none issues and bickering and my way is better than yours so take care to work out what's a real issue and what is not. There are also things that yes whilst they may be all lovely and nice if flexibility can happen you can't insist on it so work out what's what and don't focus on that.

I'm reading through your posts and it's easy to see why someone could form the opinion that your doing the whole my way is better than yours and I'm the more important parent and that an assumption could easily be made that you are also passing that view on to your child (because both tend to go hand in hand) it would be adventatious to put some work into changing that because it will harm any challenges you attempt to make.