to ask how you deal with a stroppy child after contact?

[alificent]

DD is 9 and her father and I separated when she was 18 months old. He's dipped in and out of her life a bit but contact has been alternate weekends consistently now for 2.5 yrs. When she returns from contact she either Ignores everyone here or is extremely rude and behaves badly to provoke a reaction. She tries to goad me in to telling her off (I think) so she can feel sorry for herself and convince herself that I prefer her siblings.

Her siblings are 4 months, 2 and 5. Usually they get on great but she's horrid to them after contact. I think she's jealous that they're here all the time but she says she wants to see her father so her jealousy is irrational. She's said before that we shouldn't do anything when she isn't here and is really rude if her sister tries to tell her anything that happened without her. The strange thing is, I don't think she has a particularly enjoyable time with her father. This weekend, for example, he collected her on Saturday morning and they went to watch him compete in a golf match for most of the day. They went out to eat somewhere that she doesn't like the food. On Sunday they went around car showrooms and then he dropped her back early because he was going out.

He dropped her at the swimming pool where her siblings and I were and as we were walking to the car she kept barging in between DS2 and I as he was trying to hold my hand for the car park. I was holding the baby with the other arm so I said 'excuse me please, DD, I need to hold DS' hand in the car park' and she stormed off mumbling about its always someone else's hand I want to hold, but never hers.

When we arrived home DD5 gave her a present she's bought her from her pocket money and DD9 just made a sarcastic comment and tossed it aside. I later asked her to put her socks in the wash and she started arguing and said they're her dad's socks anyway so he should decide what's done with them (!?) and that he'd shout at her if he knew she wasn't wearing then (!) She claims he shouts a lot and complains frequently about how little effort he puts in to planning anything she might enjoy yet is so unappreciative that she gets the exact opposite treatment here.

Our weekends revolve around the DC with swimming, bike rides, park, cinema, baking, painting etc. She has friends over, sleepovers, birthday parties, we have dates just the two of us every fortnight, read together each night, I take her to any activity she likes. Her father does none of this yet it's me and her siblings she gets angry with and I don't know how to deal with it anymore.

Is anyone elses child like this after contact? Any suggestions?

Japanese she mostly doesn't know what we have been doing as she tells her siblings to go away if they mention anything they've been doing. It isn't shoved in her face at all. I agree about the black sheep thing which is why I'm posting.

I don't expect expensive days out or anything Derek, but there should be a balance. Just going for a picnic at the park or swimming every Sunday would be some quality time and something for DD to anticipate. Just slotting into his life is making her very unhappy.

"Japanese she mostly doesn't know what we have been doing as she tells her siblings to go away if they mention anything they've been doing. It isn't shoved in her face at all."

Doesn't matter. I'm not suggesting it's being shoved in her face. It makes not a shred of difference what you guys get up to while she's not there. The fact is that she knows you are doing something, and she doesn't like feeling left out.

Did you take on board any of the other things I said?

Derek i think there's a big difference between spending the day at home doing nothing (which is fine and my kids are happy doing as they can do their own thing and have company when they want it) and sitting around on a golf course being ignored by her dad and with no company/ way of entertaining herself all day long while he enjoys himself.

"It's not their fault and you need to drill that into her before her siblings resent her"

Bit harsh?

It's not her fault that she's the only "exception" in a family that seems very happy as long as she's not around. 9 is still pretty young. It's hard being the odd one out. Sometimes you act up to the role you've been given. I think the "buck your ideas up" approach is definitely the wrong one.

Her sister dreads her coming back already. She's horrible the day before she goes, too. I've told her dad what she's like and that she's unhappy, I've suggested things he could do with her but I think he quite enjoys the disruption it causes to my life and forgers it's her that it's all hurting most.

Happy so long as she isn't around totally isn't correct. She gets on well with her siblings the vast majority of the time and it's only around contact that anyone is unhappy.

It's just difficult to empathise with how she's feeling without saying 'he's a bit of a dick, isn't he?' I try to be positive about him but it's difficult when he constantly let's her down.

Again - love and respect Derek, so this is not disrespectful or rude to her, but this thread has almost been de-railed and there are kind-of 2 conversations going on here.

OP, I think the Derek stuff is a distraction, because people (including me) have responded to her post and she's defending what she said, but it's not quite the same as your issue.

Whilst taking what Derek says on board, I do think you need to find a way to make transitions different in order to change what is happening in your home during those times, which are causing problems for all of you.

What's telling is that your ex is getting off on the dis-harmony. What an arse!

"You don't always have to be positive. My son is 6 and if his dad fucks up I'm honest with him."

I think I agree with this. OP, your daughter sounds frustrated, maybe a bit of honesty would be helpful. You don't have to attack him, but you could acknowledge things and it may help draw some of this stuff out of her.

^You don't always have to be positive. My son is 6 and if his dad fucks up I'm honest with him.^

But that depends on your relationship with your ex, doesn't it. I know ex's who just want to fuck their ex P over for the joy of it, and no matter if it's upsetting for the child (I know a LOT of these). You can't always have a rational conversation, because they have a different agenda. And honestly, if you have an ex who makes time for contact and is open for suggestions on how to make that better for the child, then I promise you're in a very, very tiny majority of parents I know.

I'm sure you probably have but Have you tried empathising with the situation and depersonalising it. Telling her you understand that life with 2 homes can be tough and it's ok for her to feel however she does, sometimes all they need is someone to says it's all ok and give her feelings acceptance. . I really think it's one of those scenarios you need to focus on the behaviour and not the person. It's not going to be a change that happens overnight but something you tell her repeatedly until she gets it.

btw, read The Suitcase Kid by Jacqueline Wilson with your DD and talk about it.

You need to limit the time she spends with this man. He is disappointing her and hurting her and she cannot verbalise it, perhaps out of optimism that he will change, perhaps out of loyalty/love, perhaps because she doesn't know how to describe it.

But you have enough information to connect the dots here: he arranges stuff for himself to do on the weekends she is with him, he isn't interested in her life/friends/what she prefers to eat/her performances, or in general anything about her. He shouts at her and she has no routine when she is at his home.

This is a horrible way to treat a child.

Please seek counselling for her so she can talk to someone about how her experience of visitation makes her feel.

After you do this, I suggest family mediation. You and exH need to sit down and work out how he can become a better parent, or if he wants to continue seeing his DD eow. He needs to be asked why he wants to see her and what value he thinks he brings to her life. He needs to be asked how he thinks his performance at the golf tournament and his no-showing at her performances illustrate care for his DD.

It's just difficult to empathise with how she's feeling without saying 'he's a bit of a dick, isn't he?' I try to be positive about him but it's difficult when he constantly let's her down.
For your part right now, you need to take EatShitDerek's advice and stop glossing over your exH's shortcomings. You need to get help for your DD and you need to stop seeing this as a behavioural issue of hers that upsets you. She is being treated badly by this man and that needs to stop.

It must be hard for you and your DD.

She knows her father is supposed to love her and she should be the centre during vists but she is treated as an inconvenience, this must be very upsetting for her. Which she takes out on you as she feels safe and secure with you.

I do sometimes have an angry child after visits but it's mainly tears, but she insists she wants to go. I've stopped trying to give her excuses for his useless behaviour, and just listen to her processing. No answer sorry but your certainly not alone.

It sounds to me like she is having some attachment issues. I would take her to see a therapist if you can afford to, and read up on how to manage this. Quiet time before and after contact, transitional objects whilst she is there, lots of books that can be read together etc.
I know it is very easy to be frustrated by a child exhibiting these classically insecure attachment behaviours, but please remember that she is not at fault here. Nobody really is - but you WILL be, if you continue to blame her and make her feel separated from your family unit. Which is what she is feeling right now, whether you like it or not.

I have been where you are OP with a nine year old. I didn't involve ex as he saw that it wasn't anything to do with him as it happened with me. I remained calm and consistent about my rules and reiterated them constantly. DD and I every few months have a really special day together. We have come out the other side and no longer get this as she knows my expectations.
DD dud also have some counselling at school which helped.

"My ex doesn't pay but my child isn't pay per view so sees his dad"

I wish that phrase went away, unless the NRP is struggling hugely with their finances, not paying is a clear sign of irresponsible parenting and even neglect.

Not to say that reinforces the stereotype that RP are money grabbing individuals holding the kids at ransom because they want more money (as if getting a few pounds more a week made a huge difference to either parent).

No personal issue with you Derek, it is just that phrase that gets my goat.

I wouldn't challenge to much at he time "that's not ok behaviour" was about the limit of what DD could cope with. Later we would discuss "I know you find changing houses difficult but behaving like that towards me and you siblings is not ok. Now if you are unhappy or cross I'm more than happy to talk to you about it. But as soon as you behave like that I cannot support you and I have to tell you off because you are the one doing the wrong thing"

Things we found helped tremendously (different things at different times)
eating - even if the kids had already eaten it was almost a way of establishing being home

we rolling straight into the next activity without to much discussion or opportunity for rudeness eg dvd on and waiting as we got in through the door, swimming, out onto the trampoline (excess of energy times)

Not insisting she join the family instantly. The dvd and pizza is here if you want it You do have to come and sit with us to enjoy them but only when you are ready.

Not leaving to go to her dad's directly from home. Breakfast at macdonalds was an absolute godsend. It was almost like it gave her space to shift attitudes (she had a very difficult time with the very value codes between houses)

I probably should add that DD and DS had a very difficult relationship with their dad. I had got out when they were very young so they went for almost 8 years. Often we were dealing with a variety of issues. Bad weekends were issues with their Dads behaviour. However some of the most difficult returns were actually when everything had gone well. Took a long time to work that out. Lots of issues with divided loyalties. When things had gone right DD actually missed them when they had gone wrong it was just anger at them going wrong.

Her behaviour screams of hurt to me. Hurt that her father is putting her behind his own wants and then hurt that even after not seeing her for a weekend that you don't want to hold her hand.

And I am not saying her hurt for the latter is justified, I am sure you are doing your absolute tip top best, but I can see how she could feel that.

Could you try giving her some responsibilty for the younger ones? Lay it on a bit thick, "oh dd, thank goodness you are home, I have missed you! Could you hold ds hand while I hold yours as I have missed you?"

She sounds so unhappy - the picking on her sisiter sounds as if she is reinforcing to herself that she is unwanted and unneeded.

Definitely. Especially as she is lovely with her siblings when not near contact time.