DD is 10 years old and wants to go into town wearing make-up - aibu?

[Evelynne]

I have been kind of railroaded into allowing DD (10) into town with her two friends. We live in a city.

The mother of one of the girls approached me in front of both girls and asked whether DD could meet them in town this weekend. I didn't want to embarrass DD so I said I would think about it.

The mother then asked whether DD could go on a 4 hour shopping trip with the girls. I was unhappy with this and said I'd be ok with an hour, providing DD had a mobile and I was in town too....

DD has just told me that the girls wear make-up into town (DD doesn't make things like this up) and I am really regretting saying it's ok. I don't want my 10 year old alone in town with other 10 year olds wearing make up, it just makes me feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't be bothered if they were 13/14 but I do feel 10 is too young.

AIBU?

I think that there may be a little confusion as to what a padded bra is

My dd wore moulded bras at 11/12 which have a thin layer of foam

She did not wear padded bras which have a medium/large padded area which pushes up the breast tissue to make the breasts look much bigger

Mil keeps saying that the reason dds breasts look big is because she is wearing a "padded" bra...they look big because she has big boobs the "padding" is to stop her nipples and bra shape showing

Having said that a 10 year old should only be in a bra if they have something to put in it

There may not be any confusion

There may be mothers putting their 10 year olds in wonder bras

Really outstanding posts, TheSparrowhawk.

Sparrow- now if you could just go over to the ' variation of the skirt school shirt' thread and do a better job than me, I'd be grateful as I've only managed to roll my eyes so far

Rufus - wonderbra for 10 yr old. Lol. Chicken fillets maybe?!!

I was thinking mounded t shirt style bra.

My 10 year old dd returned from a sleepover at 10am the other morning with hair all curled and mascara and bright lipstick on ! I was a little shocked to say the least as I think she is way too young for the make up. I wouldn't let my 10 year old go into town with friends, it would be fine if an adult is going too but not just with friends.

The radical feminist viewpoint would take the view that make up has meaning and examine why posters here say that girls shouldn't wear make up rather than saying that boys and men shouldn't assume that a girl wearing make up is sexual fair game.

Nah, that's the regular feminist viewpoint. The radical feminist viewpoint would be to ask why women and girls want to wear make up in the first place.
And why that make up often emulates physical signs of sexual attraction (red lips, dilated pupils/big eyes, etc).

Make up has meaning, yes, but I do not think it is in any way a symbol of liberation.

When your child's headteacher, your GP, you MP wears make up, do you think 'she wants attention from men'?

As a matter of fact, I do. Without patriarchy, without women depending on men's opinions for earning a living - would women feel a need to wear make up while doing their jobs unless they were actors?

Yep stay in town too. Set boundaries of how far they can go in any direction and have a chat with your daughter about make-up - tell her that you strongly feel she is too young to wear make-up but are happy to discuss it again once she is 13 or 14 - but perhaps as a compromise you would be okay with her wearing clear mascara and lipgloss? You can get clear mascara from Boots. You/she will come across lots of situations going forward where other children are allowed to do things ahead of others.... but I have always tried to be open and honest about how I feel and look for a small compromise. I have also heard myself say.... "it isn't easy being a parent sometimes as I don't want to say no but I want what is best for you and when you are an adult and have your own children you will hopefully remember this conversation we are having". Something along those lines anyway.... Good luck.

Sometimes Mumsnet really makes me look at stuff in a new way...

Absolutely no problem meeting up with friends for an hour or two. It's good practice to gain some independence before secondary school. Make sure she has phone on her and give her a safe word she can phone or text you in case there is a problem.

YANBU. Your dd is 10. Your are the parent, she is the child. It is your responsibility to set the "boundaries" and "rules" to keep her safe. Don't let other parents bully you into agreeing to make bad choices. Letting three 10 year olds roam around a city on their own unsupervised, is asking for trouble IMO. I'm all for giving children independence but it needs to be in age appropriate measures

Incidentally, I used to live in a lower, middle, upper school area. Kids routinely walked themselves to school in middle school. Ie year 5 upwards and no one battered an eyelid. In fact, you never saw any parents (after the first week) doing the middle school school-run.

In mn world, suggesting that a year 5 child would walk themselves everyday to school, including crossing a busy main road, would be unheard of, and definitely frowned upon.

DD is 10 and in year 6 and I have just begun to allow her into town (not a city) for an hour with a friend. She is dropped off and collected and has her phone in case of difficulty. As for makeup, she may wear a little subtle lip gloss when she goes out, and maybe a tiny bit of mascara or subtle sparkly eyeshadow. When they are the youngest in their year group I think you have to give a little earlier on these things than you otherwise might. They may be only 10 still but their friends in the same class will be coming up for 12 in September. And after all, they will be going to secondary school in a few weeks and need to be independent enough to catch a bus and find their way home themselves, crossing roads etc.

228 - most kids walk here from year 5, in fact they start walking home at the end of year 4. No one bats an eyelid.

Yes, 10 is rather young, but you could 'inspect' her before she left the house and as soon as she is out of sight she could be putting on secret make-up, hanging about in a shopping centre and getting up to ... whatever. I don't blame you one bit for worrying.

We were all young once and most of us didn't appreciate the dangers then - and most of us got away with it most of the time. Only you can decide what you're happy with.

I have a DD similar age.

Make up - well it could go from a slight smack of lip gloss to the down-right tarty.
DD likes to wear lip balm and a very light coat of pearly eye-shadow (shadow is for play only at this stage).

Padded bras and the like - DD wears cropped vest tops with no enhancement or definition, just a shorter vest with strappy bra-like shoulder straps. I don't have an issue with this as she will be in secondary school soon enough and no doubt bras will follow.
The thought of fake nails and bikinis however make me shudder (mentioning them because they have come up in conversation )

I don't wear much make up and my daughter likes make-up
I don't wear high heel shoes and my daughter likes heels (the klip-kloppy the better).
Daughters don't always follow mum

I'd say no to makeup at 10. But yes to a little freedom to venture into town for a short while with friends.

TheSparrowhawk is my new crush.

The most eloquent, sensible posts I've seen on MN for years - not exaggeration. If more ppl got this instead of spouting senseless crap from those high horses, our daughters would be part of a safer, fairer world.

Sparrow - if a new friends vacancy comes up - please contact me

Sorry mamamic I posted my application yesterday.

And my DD started going to town in yr 6 and has been wearing age appropriate make up since forever. And by appropriate, I mean so she doesn't go out looking like a clown. For her 12 birthday last month she went to MagCon and got to meet her idols who are teens to 20 somethings and loved it - and she wore make up. She also had her first 'piercing' at the tattoo place near us. She had ear piercing for her 7th birthday.

Everyone who meets her always comment on how polite and well
Mannered she is - even the trauma team who looked after her in hospital last month. They came especially to tell us again what an amazing child we have when we were discharged.

What we 'allow' our kids to do, wear etc does not determine who they are. Teaching Right from wrong, respect, empathy, responsibility, loving yourself. This is what makes my daughter who she is. She always looks amazing because she is - make up or not . And she does my make up cos I'm rubbish at it!

The term Sexualisation is just another way to make women and men believe that the way women are treated/mistreated is women's fault and within women's power to control. Complete fallacy which most of the female population seem to have bought in to, sadly

Damn you blank. Room for one more?

I can't believe how many people would say no to this given that an adult will be nearby.

When I was 10, my friend and I were in a choir- rehearsals were in the nearest "big" town during summer holidays. Our parents worked and we made the 1.5 hour journey ourselves on public transport, and would walk into the town for something to eat at lunchtime and walk round the shops to kill time before the bus home. We sometimes wore lipgloss but didn't really bother with proper make up.

Thought-provoking posts from Sparrow. I've always really hated the idea of make-up on young girls, but never really thought much about why. It's good to have your views challenged from time to time.

I think Sparrow makes some excellent points, but still not sure if I can get over my visceral dislike of make-up on young girls. These things are deeply ingrained, but this thread has given me a different perspective to ponder.

Thankfully, my own 11yo dd couldn't be less interested in make-up. She has to wear it for dance shows/competitions, but usually she can't wait to get it off when she comes off stage. Not sure what I'd do now if she asked to wear it in town - think the answer would still be no for the time being, though this thread has certainly given me pause for thought.

As for going into town unaccompanied, I think it's ok for an hour or so. DD not bothered about this yet but I know that some of her year 6 friends are very keen. If dd said that she wanted to do this, I think I'd be ok with that.

Just to put it out there - applications not necessary but cake/coffee/wine always welcome

Dame - I did look for that thread you mentioned but I couldn't find it.

Vestal - I don't think make up is a symbol of liberation - at no point did I say it was.

Liberation would be when 10 year old girls were allowed to do completely harmless things like putting colour on their faces without the world assuming things about those girls. Liberation would be when the girls who are doing harmless things like wearing make up are allowed to go about their business while the boys and men doing harmful things, like harassing and attacking women, are called to account for their behaviour. Liberation would be a world that says to girls - no matter what you wear and no matter how you look you are still free to do as you please, within the law. Liberation would be a world where the things that women are expected to do as a matter of course, like wearing make up, aren't seen as 'advertising' but are rather seen purely as a choice that the woman may or may not make, which has no bearing on whether she's sexually available or not. Liberation would be a world where, in order to find out if a woman is sexually available, he would not look at the length of her skirt or how 'tarty' she looks, he would have to talk to her and engage with her as though she was an actual human being with feelings and opinions. Liberation would be a world where girls of any age could wear whatever they wanted on their faces without the danger of men 'assuming they're older' (ie harassing them/attacking them.)

No matter what a girl or woman wears, on her face on her body, a man never ever ever has the right to invade her personal space, make her feel uncomfortable, assault her or rape her. Never.