DD aged 4 sharing parents' bedroom

[MarchelineWhatNot]

We live in a tiny 2 up 2 down house which we rent from a private landlord. Our son has his own room and myself, DH & DD share the other bedroom. DD is always asking for her own room and I feel really sorry for her as I know she would keep it really nice and tidy.

Unfortunately, we cannot afford to move. We are stretched to the limit financially and I already commute 90 mins both ways (3 hours per day) for work so moving further out of the city is just not an option. We have pets as well so can't move into a flat.

So we're stuck. But I feel really sad for DD. Is it so bad for her to share our room? Is anybody else in this situation and if so, how do you handle it?

Thanks.

I'm struggling to understand why if both of you are working full time, how you cannot afford to move, are you in debt? If so have you looking into debt management plans? Step change is the one I recommend to my clients.

As much as I don't like the idea of you re-honing your pets, it could be a option, the average cost of a dog is roughly £1500 per year, A cat is roughly £900 per year, thats not just pennies, it's a substantial amount that could be saved in getting your child her own bedroom!

Housing, you're not over crowded as you have a living room,! Could you sleep in the living room, or you in the smaller room and divide the bigger bedroom, as something is better than nothing!

There is also national government schemes out there also that can help people move, Help to Buy is one of them.

if your on a low budget and meet criteria you could also apply for a loan with 0% intreast

Have you looked into cheaper options in your utility bills, (smart meter) TV package, food bills, car insurance, look into buying a cheaper car to run etc...

Their is always options, explore them you will be suprised at the results.

I am also a bit surprised that you haven't heard the term "statutory overcrowding as defined by the Housing Act " before if it is an area you work in.

It's not an area I work in, so no need to be so snippy. I asked my local housing department and they confirmed the two families I described are classified by them as overcrowded.

What matters is the definition as applied in the area you are seeking housing in. So in my case, what matters is the definition used by my LA and what matters to the OP is the definition used by her LA. It may well be the definition you linked to, or it may be closer to the one used in my LA. The OP hasn't said where she lives, so we cannot say whether her LA would consider her overcrowded. My post was intended to be helpful to the OP and to suggest an avenue she might be able to explore.

It isn't easy to move, it took a huge amount of effort and we had to wait quite a while for the right set of circumstances to arise where both of us would get enough work just to manage it but it really is more doable than many Londoners tend to believe. You just have to be flexible. Alternatively OP can continue for another year or two like this.. but not forever so something will have to give. It's not easy, but it's life for a lot of us.

People are being way too harsh on the OP. The younger sibling should be fine to share with parents for a few years yet. I'm sure she has somewhere to play!

Don't feel guilty OP - you are doing the best for your children. Many other families worlwide have even less space available.

Not sure where you live or your budget but have you looked at places like Milton Keynes, northampton, rugby or kettering, Leicester, Wellingborough or Bedford all about an hour train from London or less. Your commute is likely to be the same, possibly less if MK or Bedford. 3 bed house near station likely to be 600/750 upwards - more if MK/Bedford but train fare will be less.

So basically:

Shove one of the DCs back up your foof
Get your pets put to sleep
Retrain
Get a job in Aldi
Move across the UK

Meanwhile, back in the real world In your shoes OP (and I have been) I would get a good quality sofa bed for the lounge and just store your clothes/shoes etc in your current bedroom, your dd could have a small child's bed and the room to herself. DH loved this, we had the "big TV" in our "bedroom" Sleep mask and earplugs for me Seriously, it was fine, it was nice having all the DC get into the sofa bed for weekend breakfasts.

If you do get a sofa bed, get one with good storage underneath so you can put the bedding away easily.

I don't really understand the point in comparing OPs situation to children
In poverty in a third world country. Is that the sort of thing you'd want for your children even - though they can have so much more in the UK?

Those children's parents would be very grateful to have better options I'm sure.

MarchelineWhatNot You may be classed as overcrowded, going by the amount of space. You;d have to measure your rooms.
Here's how to do it;

england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/common_problems/overcrowding

How to calculate statutory overcrowding: amount of space
Under the space standard, the number of people in your home is compared with both the number of rooms and the floor area.

There are two separate calculations for working out if you're overcrowded. The first looks at the number of rooms you have. The second looks at the floor area in your home. The answer to each calculation gives the number of rooms that's enough for you and your family.

If the numbers are different, the lower number is used. Your home is legally overcrowded if the number of people living there is more than this.

To count the number of people:

don't include children under 1 year old
children aged 1 to 9 years count as a half
anyone aged 10 or over counts as one person
To count the number of rooms, include bedrooms and living rooms but don't include any rooms under 50 square feet.

Number of rooms
The number of rooms considered enough for your family is:

1 room for 2 people
2 rooms for 3 people
3 rooms for 5 people
4 rooms for 7.5 people
5 or more rooms for 2 people per room
Floor area
The minimum floor area considered enough for your family is:

50 - 69 square feet (4.6 - 6.5 square metres) for 0.5 people
70 - 89 square feet (6.5 - 8.4 square metres) for 1 person
90 - 109 square feet (8.4 -10 square metres) for 1.5 people
110 square feet (10.2 square metres) for 2 people

suburbanRhonda I did not mean to come across as snippy. I apologise.

I and others have already suggested talking to the local council and local HA.

My point was that if she was Statutorily overcrowded then they would have to rehouse her.

there are also a lot of folk on this thread saying "you are overcrowded" and yes she might be using her local councils definition but by law she isn't! plus a local council will always move the stat overcrowders to the top of the list. so in many areas where demand massively outstrips supply even those folk who meet the councils own overcrowding standard will keep being pushed down the list by the stat overcrowders.

EveryoneElsie the Op is 2 adults an 11 year old and a 4 year old so that counts as 3.5 people. she has 3 rooms - 2 bedrooms and a lounge. therefore this flat could sleep up to 5 people in it. that means she could have another 1.5 people or 3 children aged under 10 before being overcrowded.

I'm struggling to understand why if both of you are working full time, how you cannot afford to move
I swear some people on MN live in another world.
Some people work full time and only just manage to cover the bills and keep body a soul together.

When DH was a kid there were 6 of them in a 3 bed semi.
His DM and DF had a fold down bed in the dining room, but then they had the luxury of two rooms downstairs.

I echo what others have said. Sofa bed in the living room.

Don't get rid of the pets, I'm assuming you just can't afford to move not afford to live as you are? If that's the case it's a stupid suggestion. Pets are part of the family and shouldn't be discarded!! Let alone teaching kids it's ok to get rid of them when your bored / didn't think it through.

If you can't afford to move, is extending or a loft conversion an option? In the mean time I'd look at bunk beds for the kids or sofa bed for you two downstairs.

BaboonBottom if you go back through the thread you will see that the suggestion about the pets is to do with the fact that they are in private rented and there is limited choice in their area due to the fact that they have a pet. a 3 bed flat is the same as their 2 bed house but they cant have it because they have pets.

Its not money. its availability and landlords rules.

no one is suggesting "discarding" the pets.

Oh, the garden shed reminds me, what about a caravan?

My aunt's uncle had to sleep in a caravan for about a year and a half because he cheated on her (he had to do a few other things as well, but anyhow...) If you do this, but a modern one!
My aunt bought him an older bohemian looking one... There was no electricity, it was apparently really cold in winter and it was heated with stove...

with the shed and caravan ideas who would sleep in them? the adults leaving a 4 year old alone in the house? the 4 year old alone? an 11 year old alone in a city?

neither are safe or reasonable options. plus the house is rented they will be limited in what they can do to it including putting up sheds, having caravans outside or extending into the loft.

I'm wondering if it really is the best financial option for OP to be working. If living on two full time incomes is still not enough to afford to move to a more suitably sized property, I would assume that the incomes aren't especially high. In addition OP has to travel 90 minutes each way which is costing money either through bus fares, train tickets or petrol, plus there's likely to be a childcare expense as well (assuming she doesn't have friends or family looking after her children until she gets home at 19.30). Taking all that into account, and aside from the fact that it's a horrible state of affairs for someone to be better off not working (!) it does financially seem like that could be a more viable option, especially if you consider that it may then entitle the family to other benefits including some Housing and Council Tax benefit.

they can afford a bigger flat. but it wont take pets. RTFT and it might all make a bit more sense.

But if one parent stops working that doesn't magic up a room either.

Please don't ask an 11 year old boy to share a room with his wee sister. It's really unfair and a bit embarrassing for him, particularly as he'll be entering puberty.
I'd be inclined to give the children a bedroom each, and get a sofa bed in the living room for you and husband.

OP has indicated she can't move area due to her job. Other posters are saying that if that job wasn't there it would give them the freedom to move to a cheaper area

No I don't live in another planet pipbin, [hnm] OP has said she cannot see a future long term in moving house, they both work full time, unless there rent is extreamly high or they are in debt, or have not looked at other options, I do struggle to understand how there is no future log term plan, hence why I gave many options not only for the short term but the log term.

I'm a child who was taken into care because of my parents poor finiacial choices and also the child who was beaten with a brass buckle belt for daring to have two slices of bread instead of one! So please keep the judgemental opinions at bay, when you have no idea about the background!

OP asked for opinions, I asked OP questions and offered suggestions to help her home living situation, if those question fitted the OP situation.

Another option OP, is your council tax payments if your not doing so already, spread the payments over 12 months and not 10.

Moving, caravans () and the like are pretty drastic changes; buying a sofa bed is not.

Does anyone actually properly share a room with their school age child, or are we talking living in a penthouse, by the way?

Op doesn't appear to want to buy a sofa bed. She said her sitting room is too small.

Buckinbronco I don't really understand the point in comparing OPs situation to children
In poverty in a third world country. Is that the sort of thing you'd want for your children even - though they can have so much more in the UK?
Those children's parents would be very grateful to have better options I'm sure.

I grew up in a third world country. Not in poverty though. But due to our large family, a resident relative and fewer much larger rooms (compared to the U.K.) I shared with my sisters.

I would argue against the British 'every child in their own bedroom' ideal as not necessarily being the best way. We would not have quietly suffered Internet bullying or grooming, or the mental anguish that seems to afflict many children in the U.K. Things that can be more easily hidden when children are sequestered in their bedrooms, often entertaining themselves in isolation, would have come out.