An endangered gorilla has been shot dead after a 4-yo fell into its zoo enclosure

[AdrenalineFudge]

Why the fuck has this happened... again - to another endangered species?

A little boy fell into an enclosure and the zoo staff decided the best course of action was to shoot the gorilla dead.

I'm not even sure who I'm most angry at. This should not have happened in the first place.

Tessy with all due respect, 26-odd pages in we've more or less reached that conclusion. The fact remains and it will always remain that this didn't need to happen and there were mistakes on all sides.

Someone upthread had raised an interesting point, had this been for example an alligator or a snake or similar would people have had the same reaction. I doubt it.

Tessy to quote Captain Paul Watson From a purely ecological point of view the life of an endangered species is indeed more important that the life of a species that numbers in excess of 7.5 billion.

It is exteremely arrogant of us as a species to always operate from the perspective that we are superior.

And no, I'm not saying the child should have been left to die, I'm saying whilst we assume we are always superior we'll never address the actual issues, which are, as pointed out above, this should never have happened.

But it did happen. It's a pity that the gorilla died and, at the risk of sounding 'arrogant' and 'superior' the right course of action took place. Additionally, and with all due respect to Adrenaline Fudge, despite being 26 pages in, it does not seem that everyone has 'more or less reached that conclusion'. It's a contentious issue, I doubt that a conclusion will ever be reached; I'm merely giving my view.

why not a tranquiliser gun?

Please read the thread jenny, it's been discussed several times why a tranquilliser wouldn't have worked.

why not a tranquiliser gun?

That's been answered multiple times.

How about I ask you jenny why a tranqueliser gun would have worked?

Bear, in a way I agree with you, from an ecological point of view, the gorilla was far more important than the child, but it makes it even more important for any zoo to make sure 100% that their animals are protected. They failed to do that in this case.

(And no, before anyone suggests it, I don't think the child should have died, I think the keepers were in a horrific situation but did the only thing that could have been done.)

Adrenaline, re: alligators. That Florida golf course one is the business.

www.irishtimes.com/giant-alligator-ambles-across-golf-course-in-florida-1.2667018

This fella would take precedence over any golfer.

Tessykins,
I'm totally 100percent with you on this one.
First of all, I'm very sad that this Gorilla was shot and I'm angry that a child was able to get into the enclosure in the first place, it's outrageous.
I agree it doesn't matter how the child managed to get in there as once he was in there, there was only one option for the response team.
Let's be honest,the child could have had his limbs torn off and what would everybody say then?
They didn't act fast enough?
They didn't shoot him fast enough.

Here's a look at the "multiple barriers". There's the tiny fence, those bushes and then. 12-15 drop straight into the pen. My child could get through there if I looked away to sneeze.

How is that even a barrier Cheerful Yank? My 2 year old would be through it in a second!

*"Dian Fossey was trained by Jane Goodall and spent years working with her with chimpanzees before she was allowed to go an work with gorillas."

Absolute nonsense.

Back in the 60s/70s, the people working with gorillas/chimpanzees/orangutans didn't have the first idea what they were doing. It was all very much amateur trial and error. And indeed that was Louis Leakey's idea, when he sent his young female protegés off to Africa and Indonesia. Dian Fossey certainly did not spend 'years' with Jane Goodall.

"I had the wonderful opportunity to meet with Jane Goodall and talk to her about her experiences and she showed me her half missing finger and a few other scars that were caused by her being around an agitated chimp at the wrong time. "

We are talking about gorillas here.*

You're right, sorry I had a bit of Fossey's biography wrong. I was always more interested in her research then her life story. But she did visit Jane prior to going to her own camp and talked with her throughout.

It actually took Fossey years to be able to approach the troops, and multiple times she was "displayed" at by males who didn't want her near. She also witnessed infanticide and fights between males.

That isn't to say gorillas aren't gentle. In general they are. But Harambe was a 17 year old 400 lb male who had never sired children and was just entering what's considered his prime.

Jambo was 25 and had had several babies with mates by that point, which may have colored his perception of human children.

I'm not a primatologist (although I really wanted to be one growing up and read everything by Jane Goodall and Dian Fossey I could get my hands on), but what I saw was a big gorilla with a new toy that he didn't want to give back.

It's like the difference between a teenage boy and a middle aged man.

"Jane Goodall and Fossey also speak of the way chimps and gorillas wage war against other tribes and murder their young as displays of dominance. They are not as gentle as you would like to believe."

Fossey is dead. And she certainly did not promulgate the idea that gorillas (which are not chimps) were violent. In fact, she preferred them to the humans in the area. Certainly if you look at the facts there are no incidents of humans on gorilla treks being killed by gorillas, whereas there are many incidents of humans on gorilla treks being killed by humans.

Wow. The above cut and paste did not work properly at all. I need more coffee. :?

Yank

Did anyone else notice the warning sign in yanks photo?

Warning about being careful as gorillas throw things.
The fact they warned about that and not their inadequate fencing says a lot!

Let's be honest,the child could have had his limbs torn off and what would everybody say then?
They didn't act fast enough?
They didn't shoot him fast enough.
OR... how much it would cost in lawsuits, insurance and else if they did not kill him. Because then the parents would sure be victims, regardless of child's injuries, and their own negligence. The zoo would be very, very liable. But now they "saved the child!". Wow. Almost heroes.

Really the zoo and their lack of safety is ultimately responsible, Yank that is no safety at all. Like the gorilla expert has said, over the years safety barriers have been removed to improve viewing, as we can see, with disasterous consequences.

Ian Redmond, colleague of Dian Fossey, and leading gorilla expert has responded:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/31/gorillas-shooting-harambe-cincinnati-zoo

He observes that shooting a gorilla is a last resort (i.e. they have never done it).

Another world-renowned primatologist has observed that the gorilla's behaviour appears to be protective, not aggressive.

ecowatch.com/2016/05/31/killing-harambe-cincinnati-zoo/

And moreover, that the gorilla's intelligence is probably similar to that of a small child, and that he certainly was not stupid enough to see a tiny child as a threat, nor as a food stuff (they are vegetarian!).

I find it frankly a little odd that the gorilla's keepers were unwilling to enter the enclosure. I know a number of people who deal with aggressive (non-human!) apes, and there is no cowering behind fences, or packing hunting rifles - they have no choice but to negotiate, putting themselves at the apes' mercy.

This shooting makes zoos look very bad - yes, they perform breeding work and fund conservation, but ape researchers in Africa or Asia would NEVER display this cowering, trigger-happy attitude. They put themselves at the mercy of the apes, who pose much less threat to them than does their fellow man.

Yeah, also because people, including young boistrous children, have been sensible.
I remember a school field trip to a zoo in Riga, Latvia, when i was about 12. People were able to TOUCH an elephant, i also have a picture of myself next to zebra enclosure, with a zebra tugging at my sleeve through bars.
Now looking back safety was appaling. But even there shit like in Cincinati did not happen.

I hope that this tragedy serves a lesson for these zoos and attractions, to improve safety, so it does not happen again. It is sad to see magnificent creatures in captivity, I wod much rather see them in their natural habitat. Humans have a lot to answer for.

But even there -- shit like in Cincinati did not happen.

Ah the good old days, when no one fell in zoo enclosures.... Oh wait. that's bullshit.

www.680news.com/2016/06/01/zoo-exhibit-breaches-rare-but-can-have-deadly-outcomes/

listverse.com/2013/03/22/10-horrifying-zoo-accidents/

cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/zoo-incidents/

And seriously. The same zoo this March. Two polar bears escaped their enclosures:

www.wlwt.com/news/reports-polar-bear-escapes-enclosure-at-cincinnati-zoo/38543298

gorilla's intelligence is probably similar to that of a small child

Small children aren't known for their gentleness towards smaller animals. Even if they don't mean to be rough, even the most sweet natured child might pull a tail or squeeze too hard.

I agree, my 4 year old is big for his age and does not know his own strength at times, can accidently hurt children when rough and tumble or being too over boisterous. We and his nursery are working to improve this. But he is still a young child.

Even though the gorilla will not intentionally harm the child, he could tophysucal with the boy and hurt or kill him in the process.