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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

An endangered gorilla has been shot dead after a 4-yo fell into its zoo enclosure

675 replies

AdrenalineFudge · 29/05/2016 20:32

Why the fuck has this happened... again - to another endangered species?

A little boy fell into an enclosure and the zoo staff decided the best course of action was to shoot the gorilla dead.

I'm not even sure who I'm most angry at. This should not have happened in the first place.

OP posts:
NeedACleverNN · 31/05/2016 18:54

I've even seen someone write in FB "why did the zoo keep not just go in and get him?"

You can't argue when people think gorillas understand things like thst

Nataleejah · 31/05/2016 19:07

But seems like they did back then in Jersey. (See the comment i posted before)

MrsJayy · 31/05/2016 19:09

The jersey gorrila wasnt pulling that boy about though and he maybe had a different nature to this gorrila

Buttercupsandaisies · 31/05/2016 19:12

The boy was taken to hospital with serious injuries

MrsJayy · 31/05/2016 19:15

He was broken ribs and concussion (sp)

Fairuza · 31/05/2016 19:20

If it's too dangerous for keepers to get in an enclosure with gorillas at completely calm times, who is going to send them in with an agitated gorilla who wants to keep hold of his new toy?

Buttercupsandaisies · 31/05/2016 19:22

Natalee

The zoo spokesperson today said he was indeed causing harm to the boy. His statement said the videos showed very little of the extent of what happened. He said the boy was dragged along where his head was banging on rocks and that he was lucky to be alive.

For his own team if keepers to say they'd do the same today, saying it was a very dangerous situation, I don't see how anyone else can say it was anything else

Hulababy · 31/05/2016 19:39

The boy has serious, but non-life threatening injuries, including concussion. He was assessed at the scene and rushed to the hospital after being rescued from the enclosure.

The keepers involved, there on the scene, says the boy was at risk. He had been pulled around the ground, under water head being banged against the wall, and dragged up some ladders.

A gorilla is a very powerful animal. You can't just walk in to the enclosure with them. They had already tried to persuade the gorilla to leave - intact the other gorillas had been persuaded inside. The silverback wouldn't go and was more interested in the child.

I really do think that the trained keepers on site at the time, who work daily with the gorilla, are in a better position to comment on what was really going on and the real risks posed to the child, than an army of people sat watching from behind their computer screens.

It continues to amaze me why people feel they have to lay blame, even though they weren't even there to witness what happened before and during the incident.

And the bottom line is - after the child had fallen in and the gorilla had taken an interest him in - what should they have done? He wouldn't be persuaded in with the other gorillas, so what should they do? We know from the keepers and a whole host of experts why a tranquiler wouldn't have worked. So then what - leave the gorilla and boy alone and see what nature decides perhaps?

Nataleejah · 31/05/2016 19:41

Of course they would say that. In any business, you never admit guilt, regardless of what went wrong. Especially in a face of a massive lawsuit and public backlash.

Do coppers who shoot unarmed people ever admit doing wrong?

swelchphr · 31/05/2016 19:41

The boy slipped through a fence and fell into a moat, which is when the gorilla got him. They were able to remove other gorillas in the enclosure that had not seen what had happened, leaving this one gorilla who had the child. As the mother of a 3.5 year old boy, this story makes my heart hurt. In a video released, you could hear the child crying and in one instance scream. Then when the gorilla quickly and roughly (although I don't believe on purpose, he was just getting away from the commotion of people) drug the child though the water...ugh! Yes, it shouldn't have happened, but it was an accident and it did. I couldn't help but imagine what if that was my child screaming, in the clutches of this wild gorilla, and I couldn't save him?!

Regarding the tranquilizing, I read in an article that the tranquilizer can take 5-10 minutes to go into effect and can further irritate the animal (since it gets scared) making him extremely aggressive. You don't want them together any longer than necessary because you don't know what could set the animal off. It would only take a moment for this 450 lb gorilla to kill the child. Even celebrity zookeeper and wild animal activist, Jack Hannah said "I agree 1,000%" with the zoo's decision. They had to make a very important decision very quickly and it came down to saving a young boy's life.

So what exactly is your AIBU question? Should they have shot him? The alternative being, worse case scenario, you would sacrifice the child? If so, would you feel that way if that was your child? And don't just say "it wouldn't". Toddlers are slick, it only takes a moment, and she had turned around to tend to another child with her. I'm sure she is beside herself that this has happened. It's truly sad that this happened. The poor gorilla had done nothing wrong and had is now dead because of this actions of this family, but I do think the zoo made the right decision.

Hulababy · 31/05/2016 19:44

And you know better than what his keepers and most experts are saying because of ...... what Nataleejah???

Hulababy · 31/05/2016 19:45

And so Nataleejah - what would YOU have done had you been one of the keepers on site seeing a large male gorilla posing a serious threat to a young child?

TrivialBlah · 31/05/2016 19:46

Article I read earlier by Amanda O'Donoughue, who used to be a zoo keeper:-

I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.

Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.

Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.

I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.

I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.

Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but their should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.

*me working (very carefully) with a 400+ pound silverback circa 2009

Nataleejah · 31/05/2016 19:50

I don't know.
I wonder if this had happened not in America. Somewhere where they're not so trigger-happy

PurpleDaisies · 31/05/2016 19:54

I wonder if this had happened not in America. Somewhere where they're not so trigger-happy

Do you honestly think any zoo would stand back and watch while a little boy was killed in front of a massive crowd of people?! There have been comments from keepers at twycross zoo in Leicester saying they'd have done exactly the same.

Hulababy · 31/05/2016 19:59

So, you think that another country would have just stood back and let nature take its course?
Or that zoos in other countries don't have guns as part of their equipment?

So - you don't know what YOU would have done had you been in charge of that enclosure? Yet, you're more than happy to condemn the keepers, and accuse them of potentially lying to cover themselves afterwards, who did make a quick decision to save a child?

Janey50 · 31/05/2016 20:24

I am saddened and angry that this has happened. Sorry,but WTF were the parents doing while this child was climbing into the enclosure? Just another example of 'don't give a shit' parents letting their little darlings run riot and fuck everyone else,they can pay the consequences. I DO understand that the child's safety had to come first,hence the gorilla being shot,but it should NEVER have had to happen in the first place. The parents should be prosecuted and banned from visiting any zoos,EVER again.

Nataleejah · 31/05/2016 20:27

I honestly don't know. But i don't believe official version either. Plus eye-witness accounts contradict. Plus the accounts of the boy's injuries contradict.
I guess we will never find out

Andrewofgg · 31/05/2016 20:46

But i don't believe official version either. Plus eye-witness accounts contradict. Plus the accounts of the boy's injuries contradict.

This has all the makings of a good conspiracy theory. The ape is not dead. It's on tour with Shergar, Elvis, Princess Di and Lord Lucan. In JFK's car.

NeedACleverNN · 31/05/2016 20:55

Yep andrew the mother and zoo keepers were in on it of course. She pushed her son

Katz · 31/05/2016 21:06

The video I saw showed a gorilla pulling the boy through the water at speed - he looked like a rag doll - the gorillas behaviour was not protective or harmless.

The keepers did the right thing. They is no conspiracy.

Fluffycloudland77 · 31/05/2016 21:08

Ever been to Twycross though purple? The animals there do not look happy.

I wouldn't take their advice on how to look after my cat.

HandsomeGroomGiveHerRoom · 31/05/2016 21:14

I hear the ape is to be buried wrapped in the Turin shroud.

Bearbehind · 31/05/2016 21:24

I hear the ape is to be buried wrapped in the Turin shroud.

Is that supposed to be funny? Hmm

Tessykins · 31/05/2016 21:36

Wtf is wrong with some people? This child's life was in danger. It doesn't matter a feck how he got in there, the gorilla had to be shot. Child's life or animal's life? Why are we even debating this? Yes, mother should've been watching, zoo should have checked safety of enclosure. Should've, could've, would've. The only fact we're all sure of is that the child's life was at risk.